Saturday, July 30, 2005

MARINERS TRADE WINN AND OLIVO


The Mariners have made two trades tonight ending the Mariner careers of Randy Winn and Miguel Olivo.
Winn was traded to the San Francisco Giants for right handed pitcher Jesse Foppert and defensive minded catcher Yorvit Torrealba. Foppert, 25, has started 23 games in his major league career with the Giants. He missed almost the entire 2004 season after “Tommy John” surgery. Torrealba, 27, has played just 34 games with the Giants this season. He looks to be a light hitting catcher, but his defensive numbers are outstanding. His career fielding percentage is .996 and he has allowed just 3 passed balls in 206 MLB games.
The Mariners gave up on the corner stone piece of the Freddy Garcia trade sending Olivo to the Padres for two low level prospects. The Mariners received Miguel Ojeda who is soft hitting 30 year old catcher. They also got a AA pitcher from the Padres, Nate Mateo.
Leftfield can not be filled by Chris Snelling as he must spend 10 days in Triple A after being sent down last week.
Neither of the catchers acquired seem to be long term answers.
The real story on these deals is that within one year the Mariners have given up on the key piece of the Freddy Garcia trade. Olivo’s stay in Seattle has been a total disaster and showed no signs of turning itself around. You have to wonder how the Mariners could have missed this badly on a player that they presumably scouted before trading Garcia for him. On the day of that trade we were told Olivo was one of the premier young catchers in baseball. Instead the Mariners now only have Jerremy Reed and Mike Morse for the Freddy Garcia deal.
On the Randy Winn side of the deal the Mariners are banking that Foppert will re-gain his arm strength a year removed from Tommy John surgery. At 6 foot 6 inches tall Foppert has an 8-9 record with a 5.00 ERA in his major league career.
Bottom line, there is not a lot of substance coming to the Mariners in these deals. They said if they made a trade they were going to acquire players that could help the team at the big league level next season. I will be surprised if this does that.

31 comments:

Mike said...

I agree that there isn't much substance recieved in these trades but hey at least we did something. Yes the Randy Winn and Joel Pinero for Carl Povano would have been better I think but it just didn't work out that way. In regards to the Winn trade, the catcher doesn't seem like he'll be much help and I'm worried about a pitcher who has had Tommy John surgery. It's a big risk to take on someone a year removed from a surgery like that. But here's hoping. As for the Olivo trade...Thank God we got rid of him. The Padres could have given us a bag of candy and it would be worth it. Yes it will be a suprise if the players aquired do help the team out, but let's be honest the players we have right now aren't doing a whole lot for us. I do have a question concerning left field, will the M's bring up Snelling to be the everyday left fielder after 10 days, or will they let Bloomquist rome left field the way he's been playing?

AK1984 said...

The below post was accidentally placed in the previous comment zone, so I'll cut-&-paste it here, which is where it blongs:

Alright, at any rate, the Seattle Mariners trading of Randy Winn (.275/.342/.391; $3,750,000), 31, to the San Francisco Giants for catcher Yorvit Torrealba (.226/.301/.344; $715,000), 27, and starting pitcher Jesse Foppert (AAA: 3-1, 4.50; $52,600), 25, was a decent deal.

In any case, the reasons as to why the aforementioned deal is decent includes the following: 1. Once the ten-day recallment-moratorium passes, the Mariners can call-up left fielder Chris Snelling (MLB: .222/.417/.333; MLB: $316,000), 23; 2. It rids the Mariners' 2006 payroll of $5,000,000, with a possible $125,000 in performance-based incentives (650 plate appearances), in salary, which Winn will now receive in San Franciso; 3. It gives the Mariners a former top-prospect in Foppert, who was a major force prior to his Tommy John surgery in 2003; & 4. Torrealba is a damn good defensive catcher who can back-up catcher Wiki Gonzalez (MLB: .350/.350/.550; $2,250,000), 31 -- who is, undeniably, defenisvely inept -- for the remainder of the season.

Okay, the worst part regarding catcher Miguel Ojeda (MLB: .137/.232/.205; $325,000), 30, is the fact that he's under contract through 2007; Ojeda is slated to earn $350,000 next season and $500,000, with a $25,000 buyout option, in 2007.

Instead of acquiring Ojeda, the M's should've just shipped off catcher Miguel Olivo (MLB: .151/.172/.276; $400,000), 27, to San Diego for only relief pitcher Natanael Mateo (AA: 3-4, 3.08), 24, who is a quasi-prospect with good velocity and command (95-97 m.p.h.), but only throws one good pitch (four-seam fastball). At any rate, though, catcher Rene Rivera (MLB: .364/.382/.545; $316,000), 22, would've been a way better option behind the plate than Ojeda.

As it is, here are my projections for the guys that the Mariners acquired:

Yorvit Torrealba -- He will adequately back-up Wiki Gonzalez for the remainder of the 2005 season, and will then not be offered arbitration in the upcoming off-season.

Jesse Foppert -- In the same vain as Roger Salkeld, Ken Cloude, Ryan Anderson, Jeff Heaverlo, Gil Meche, Joel Pineiro, et al., Foppert will not return to his pre-injury form, nor will he ever be a successful major league pitcher; instead, he'll have a long career as a journyman starter and/or long-reliever at triple-AAA.

Miguel Ojeda -- For the remainder of 2005, he'll suck as Ryan Christianson's backup. In 2006, he'll such as reserve catcher for the M's, while Rene Rivera starts; he'll be bought-out at the end of the 2006 season.

Natanael Mateo -- He'll continue to perform serviceably at the double-AA level; yet, as he progresses, his inability to mix pitches and his advanced age at this stage of his career will greatly hinder him. Ultimately, he'll be nothing more than a journyman reliever who'll rack up innings in middle relief at triple-AAA.

AK1984 said...

In regards to the ten-day recallment moratorium: If the Mariners place a player on the 15-day or 60-day disabled list (e.g., Scott Spiezio), then the rule is not in effect. Yet, with that noted, it appears as if the Mariners will go with three catchers until 8/5, which is when Chris Snelling can be brought up.

Ableman2 said...

I know the M's claimed they were going to get major league ready players in return, and I know I've posted this before, but come on- it's WINN! He's average. Time will tell, as it does with all trades, but if Foppert turns out to be even a 5th starter, and Snelling becomes a solid major leaguer, and they use the saved $$$ for pitching, well hell, good deal!

Hey, does anyone know where I can find a list of upcoming free agents (end of this season) ?

Anonymous said...

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Myk said...

I can't agree more with all of the post here (especially AK1984). Simply put if you are going to trade away average players or just flat out crap you aren't going to get much in return.

I'm not as down on Froppert, Tommy John surgery is not as bad as it once was and you can see many many pitchers that have gotten over it to be great pitcher (Matt Morris is a good example). So if you can get a top prospect whose biggest mark against him is a surgury, for an average LF I think you do it every time

Anonymous said...

screw carl pavano
lets get yorvit torrealba and jesse foppert instead! Y get an ace starter to put in a rotation that nis struggling wen u can get a minor league pitcherand a backup catcher? These r the only trades that will happen from seattle, its pathewtic. Fire Bavasi.

Anonymous said...

I'll preface this with, I haven't been a huge Bavasi fan. But he hasn't done anything to get fired yet either.

Pavano hasn't proven much. He had one good year in Fla. His Career WHIP & ERA are 1.35 & 4.27. Those are not the stats of a number 1 starter. His year in NY can be discounted as NY does weird things to pitchers.

The biggest reason that I like this deal is that it opens up LF for Snelling/free agent aquisition. Plus it takes Winn and his salary out of town. Don't get me wrong Winn is a decent two hitter, an above average/good fielder. That being said with Reed and Ichiro in the OF and Ibanez as the DH, there isn't room for another hitter like Winn in our lineup.

Provided the M's keep their payroll up, we should have some $$$ to throw around this Winter. Bavasi has been handcuffed with an aging team and a fan based that would have revolted if it changed before it was more than apparent.

Unfortunately looking ahead there isn't a whole lot out there on the free agent market this coming year. The big names that I've seen are Giles, Konerko, Furcal, Nomar and Damon...I'm sure that I'm missing someone. Hopefully, they'll find someone like a Manny who is good but making too much money and talk the other team into picking up some of the cost.

Anonymous said...

I'll give Bavasi props.. kinda..

Yorman Bazardo and Mike Flannery both look like pretty good pitchers.. For Villone I think Bavasi got pretty good value..

So obviusly we're acquiring power arms.. But why are they all Right Handed.. We need left handed power (pitching and hitting). We're not even close to acquiring any..

Garrett said...

One

Garrett said...

One thing to note is that often pitchers get stronger 2 years after tommy john -- given Winn was not in the Ms long term plans, I don't think it is a bad deal to take a chance on a prospect that was once considered head of the rotation material by pretty much everyone who knows about that stuff. The Ms flat need a thumper in left -- Winn was never going to be that. I think they should stick Ibanez in left and go after some power to be the DH in the offseason.

Anonymous said...

Who cares if the Ms save money--they are one of the richest teams in baseball, and anyhow they won't use any money left over from this year for next year; that's just the way they run their team.
Doing something just to do something is a dumb idea. I'd like to know why Olivo became so terrible here...it will be interesting to see how he does in the future.
Nellie on "softies" show implied that the veteran pitchers weren't listening to the young catchers pitch calls. Why don't the Ms call the game from the bench then?
They needed to get rid of Guardado--couldn't some of these players have been put together into a package for a player that could actually help for next year?
I don't understand the Ms plan.
They have no rotation for next year.

Anonymous said...

I thought Bavasi did a good job. The Villone and Winn deals were great. I thought they gave up on Olivo a bit too soon. I wish they could've just let him play out the year and see if he's able to turn things around.

I wish Bavasi could've gotten rid of all the other 30+ like Moyer, Nelson, Hasegawa, Speizio, Guardado, etc. The Moyer situation just pisses me off. He had two great opportunity to join a contender and compete in the post-season. I'm still hoping that Bavasi is able to move these guys in the waiver-wire trade deadline.

Anonymous said...

Jamie Moyer can go to hell. I just read an article that had the Mariners sending Moyer and Winn to the Astros for their #1 and #3 rated prospects. The guy is 42 and he doesn't want an opportunity to win a World Series. Why is he even playing the game? I can understand for the average worker making peanuts having to move away from the family for two months, but Moyer is making how much? If you don't play the game wanting to win it all, I guess that kind of tells us what Moyer is about. $$$$$$$ I guess he needs it for his 500 kids.

Anonymous said...

They received 4 pithers. If just one of them turns out to be a solid 2 or 3 starter then would you trade Winn, Olivo and Villone for that? The answer is an emphatic "YES."
Also Reed was cornertone (one word) of the Freddy trade -- not Olivo. In case you haven't noticed they have a starting shortstop and starting center fielder out of that deal and the shortstop is hitting .330!
Ben

Anonymous said...

The Mariners rotation should be pretty good next season.

1. Hernandez
2. FA
3. Meche
4. Madritsch
5. Campillo/Pineiro/Baek

Let's hope Franklin accepts being in the bullpen. Either that or trade him.

Myk said...

I sure hope that Hernandez is not our #1 next year...sure he has #1 stuff but you don't have a 20 year old #1.

As for everyone who thought we should have gotten Pavano. Has anyone thought that maybe some of those "rumors" weren't necessarily true and he wasn't really available...

Mike Barer said...

But, remember that the Mark Langston trade would have been a total bust if it wasn't for Randy Johnson. Johnson became one of the best pitchers ever and with him we got Garcia. Jeremy Reed or Michael Morse may turn out to make this trade worthwhile.

Anonymous said...

I too would like to know how the Mariners missed so badly on Miguel Olivo. This would be important to know in order to prevent future disasters from happening. e.g., did the scouts evaluate his pitch management abilities? How about something as basic as how he grips the bat (looks like a "palmer" from a far)? Putting history aside, this original Mariner fan is feeling like there is hope on the horizon. THANK GOODNESS they cut bait with Olivo and Borders! Yes, let’s focus on the future - AMEN!!! Time will tell if these trades pan out, but I give Bavasi credit for focusing in all of the right areas. It gives me a renewed confidence that he has the ability to listen, prioritize issues, and take corrective action. We now have a pool of potential catchers. We have increased our chances of filling the #2 and/or #3 pitching slots as one other blogger correctly mentioned. Most certainly Snelling deserves a chance in left field. Once we get a quality defensive catcher in place, Bavasi has taken away any excuses Bryan Price has about his performance as a pitching coach – I like that. I’m thankful that Jamie Moyer declined to leave Seattle, as I would like to see Bavasi place Jamie on the 2006 coaching staff (in a pitching role). It sure would be nice to have someone working closely with Joel Pineiro. Joel has a huge up side; however, that head-tilting business before releasing the ball needs to go. The Fastball and 12/6 is going to be difficult w/o the extension and proper head work. He darn near fell off the mound last game! Let’s take Joel back to the basics – seriously B.P. – you know what to do. Reed, Morse, and Betancourt are all good reasons to head to Safeco from my perspective. Hargrove is the right man to groom these young ball players. Bavasi, you’ve got my trust and support.

--JohnN

Diezel said...

I have to be honest I have lost a lot of respect for Jamie Moyer.. I am going to go Herm Edwards for a second.. "You Play to win the game" Jamie could have gone to Houston for two of there top prospects and then came back a hero next year but instead just proved he's another "ME FIRST" athlete for a guy whos never won a ring and is over 40 to turn down the chance to go to a staff of Clemens, Oswalt, and Pettite is kind of mind boggling to me. I guess all Jamie really cares about is going through the motions of the rest of the season and then hanging em up. If the M's bring back Jamie next year I guarantee that whenever he pitches and I am at the game, I will boo until I am out of breath. Jamie is a good guy off the field and is great in the community, but this is bussiness and for him to screw the M's after all they have done for him is a JOKE.

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