Monday, July 25, 2005


The Sonics brass believes that Flip Murray can fill the role of the departed Antonio Daniels. After watching Murray last season it is hard to believe that is true. However, the Sonics contest that much of Murray's issue last year was uncertainty. He missed training camp and the first 20 games and by the time he was ready to return the Sonics were rolling and had no place for him. Therefore, for the rest of the year he pressed, never played in rhythm and suffered because of it.
The Sonics will tell you he can take it to the basket and draw fouls in a way no one but Ray Allen can do on this team. They believe that his ability to score off the bench is a game changer.
The detractors, of which I am apart, believe he is sloppy with the ball. He can't play inside an offensive structure and scores at the detriment of his teammates. Their is no way he can replace Daniles remarkable assist to turnover ratio. Murray averages 1.4 assist to 1 turnover. It is not his game to be that player. Moreover, as much as I believe that Daniels is overrated defensively Murray is a less good defender then Daniels.
Who do you side with?
The Sonics back much of their belief in numbers. And the numbers are impressive.
Over the past two seasons when Murray has played over 20 minutes he has produced.

Type ----G Pts Reb Ass --- FG% 3p% FT%
20+ min 58 15.8 3.1 3.0 -- 44.4 30.8 71.8
25+ min 40 18.5 3.5 3.5 -- 46.3 32.9 70.6
30+ min 21 21.6 3.7 4.2 -- 46.4 34.8 67

Type ----G Pts Reb Ass --- FG% 3% FT%
20+ min 20 13.6 3.6 2.2 -- 38.0 27.8 72.1
25+ min 16 14.8 4.1 2.5 -- 38.3 27.9 72.7
30+ min 9 18.0 4.0 2.9 -- 40.0 30.8 70.3

Last Two Seasons
Minutes Pts Rebs Ass -- FG% 3p% FT% A/T
20+ min 15.2 3.2 2.8 -- 42.8 30.0 71.9 1.4
25+ min 17.5 3.7 3.2 -- 44.1 31.4 71.1 1.4
30+ min 20.5 3.8 3.8 -- 44.5 37.2 67.8 1.4


Sean O'Connor said...

Flip is a chucker... let him go. Juan Dixon is a winner, lets see what he do here.

Sonic EJ said...

Flip is fine. He will be better than AD in some areas (Did anyone really look at AD's jump shot last year? i mean really LOOK at it. Ugly!)

Sonic fans need to stop trying to recreate last years team position by position. This is a new year and some players and roles are going to change.

I hope the sonics go out and sign the best PF or Center left on the market with any remaining money they have to spend.

Whats that you say?

They already have enough PFs and Centers.

Ask the Pistons if you can have enough big men.

Diezel said...

For anyone who is interested the Soncis summer league team plays Tuesday night at 7pm on NBA TV(601 on direct) against Utah and then on Wed. same time against the Hawks who played last night and there whole summer team is like there whole rotation for this year. But you can see Marvin, Tre and Salim.

Diezel said...

Here is a list of 1/2's that would be a replacement for AD and Flip.
This is not in the order of my personal prefrence but I am not Wally or Sund either. Darrel Armstrong, Travis Best, Chris Duhon, Demar Johnson, Tyrone Lue, Kareem Rush, Gerald Wallace, Earl Watson. This is by no means the Top Free agents left but I am pretty sure they can all be had for the mid-level exepmtion. P.S. Theres a picture of Juan Dixon on with him flanked by Bob Weiss and Howard, he(Juan) is on his celly maybe talking to his agent. This was at the Storm game on Saturday.

Sonic EJ said...

Juan Dixon is the exact same player as Flip.

Jack W said...


Do you have any more stats on Flip. For example, what is the Sonics record when Flip plays more than 20 minutes? What's their record when he takes more than 10 shots. What's the +/- when he's the point guard?

I have a few stats from Flippers best year and career.

As a starter in 18 games at 35.6 minutes he averaged:
- 44.4(FG%) 16.5 shots
- 34.2(3pt%) 4.2 shots
- 64.7(FT%) 4.7 attempts

From the bench in 64 games at 21.6 minutes he averaged:
- 41.6(FG%) 9.7 shots
- 26.8(3pt%) 2.4 shots
- 75.3(FT%) 2.3 attempts

In 145 games at 20.5 minutes he averaged:
- 40.6(FG%) 9 shots
- 27.7(3pt%) 2.3
- 71.8(FT%) 2.2 attempts

He might be okay as your fourth guard, but not as the third guard. As of right now he would back up the 1 and 2. When I think of a decent backup, I think first don't make too many mistakes. Flip turns the ball over too much as a potential backup 1. If he's going to backup my 2 then hopefully he can shoot. Last year he shot 36.1 %! He missed the first part of the season and that supposedly slowed him down. Well, don't you think by April he should have been over it?When most guys are tired from the long season shouldn't Flip be in mid-season form? The month he played his most minutes, April, in 11 games(23.7 m/gm) he shot 33.9%!

One reason why he may have done well, in games he played over 20 minutes, was because he shot the ball well. Like Radmanovic, when they shot the ball well they played extended minutes. There's too much inconsistency from Flip to be an effective third guard. Plus, he doesn't pass well, the offense doesn't flow when he's in the game, and he's a below average defender.

In his best year, Flip shot 41.6 % coming off the bench. He might have a better FG % if he stopped taking 3 pt shots and if the rim would stop blocking his dunk attempts. Otherwise, 41.6 % is going to be the best you can expect from Flip; especially since he's coming off of the bench.

I would rather have Cleaves and Wilkins in the backcourt than Flip. Maybe, Wally will bring back Frahm. At least he can shoot. At this point it seems like anyone would be better than Flip. Is Gus Williams available? Okay, maybe not anyone.

Myk said...

To me Flip seemed like the classic player that needs to start a game and get in the flow for his game to be good. When he has to come off the bench to be the "instant offense" guy he presses to hard and shoots too much. I also think that when Flip was coming off the bench he thought that he needed to score everytime he got the ball or else he would be taken out. That wasn't the case when Ray was hurt and he was guaranteed starters minutes.

Let Flip be someone elses headache and sign some dependable veterans to decent deals. Allen Houston anyone?

Locked on Sports said...

Juan Dixon's national title ranks very high in my book. Dixon over Murray seems like a no-brainer.