Tuesday, July 26, 2005

SONICS FREE AGENCY BREAKDOWN

RAY ALLEN – Signed deal with Sonics 5 year deal with incentives up to $80 million. Will become official whenever the signing period starts.
Chance of Return: 100%

VLADY RADMANOVIC -- The Sonics have offered a 6 year 39 million dollar deal for Radmanovic. Talking to Radmanovic agent's Dave Bauman he said they do not have any offer sheets at this time. However, he also says they will not accept the offer the Sonics have made. They want a deal in the line of Bobby Simmons, 9 million a year, and Kwane Brown, 8 million a year or the new Samuel Dalembert deal. The market for restricted free agents has been very quiet. Radmanovic's agent has said that they will take a 1 year tender at 3.2 million rather then accept the Sonics offer. That would make Radmanovic a free agent next year. Radmanovi's agent also says that if they have to take the one year tender it will be the first step out the door for Radmanovic. The Soncis can't trade a player who signed a one year tender.
Chance of Return: 100%.

ANTONIO DANIELS -- No surprise Daniels will not be returning. Daniels has agreed to a 5 year deal with the Washington Wizards. Chance of Returning: 0%

JEROME JAMES The sucker has bit and his name is Isaiah Thomas. The Sonics had decided that they were willing to go to three years at the mid-level to keep Jerome, but Thomas put 5 years on the table and James has a new home. Wow what a mistake by the Knicks. This is why you draft 7 footers like Swift and Petro, because getting a center is almost impossible in the market.
Chance of return: 0%

REGGIE EVANS Evans is a restricted free agent. Evans's agent is Dan Fagan who his one of the toughest in the NBA. The Evans camp is upset right now because the Sonics are placing the foucs on Radmanovic rather then Evans. The Cavaliers have been very active in pursuit of Evans but have not presented an adequate sign and trade option. The issue for the Sonics is how much time is avaliable for Evans. Nick Collison is ready to take the next step and Radmanovic is likely to return. There are 96 minutes to spread out between small forward and power forward. Lewis gets 38 a night and both Collison and Radmanovic are ready for around 30 a night. That leaves 6 other minutes. Then the question is how much center can Evans and Collison play. Chances of Evans return are increasing due to a limited market, but he may have to sign the one year tender.
Chance of Return: 75%

FLIP MURRAY -- The outside market for Murray is drying up. The rest of the league is aware that the Sonics are likely to match any deal for Murray with Daniels singing in Washington. The Willie Green deal in Philadelphia may be the benchmark for Murray. The Sonics believe that is in Weiss's up tempo game he will be more of the 2004 Murray rather then the 2005 Murray. The Sonics are talking with Juan Dixon. Murray and Dixon may be a bit redundant. If the Sonics sign Dixon, Murray could be a good sign and trade candidate. However, the Sonics are very high on Murray.
Chance of Return: 75%

DAMIEN WILKINS As we anticipated all signs are pointing to Wilkins going to Portland. Accorsing to sources in the NBA the Blazers are ready to extend an offer sheet to Wilkins that could be as much as 18 million dollars over 5 years. Wilkins has a very intense loyalty to Nate McMillan and would be interested in playing in Portland. Wilkins is a restricted free agent. This means the Sonics can match any offer. If this offer sheet is extended the Sonics have to decide what they are willing to lose to keep Wilkins. Juan Dixon or Damien Wilkins? Damien Wilkins or Flip Murray?
Chance of Returning: 35%

VITALY POTAPENKO The Sonics are still talking to Potapenko, but in an ideal world would like a center with more length. That is why they are talking with Dale Davis and others. Potapenko has a market as does any big. If the Sonics fail on Davis, Potapenko becomes a much more viable option.
Chance of Returning: 25%

68 comments:

kel said...

Excellent breakdown David. If you have a moment, can you post what to the best of your knowledge the Sonics' current ideal scenario would be? On Monday night you said it included Stromile Swift and Daniels -- well that is out the window now. So what is there best scenario at this point?

It seems like the Soncis have two options: 1) Resign Potapenko and use the exception on a quality back-up gard, like Earl Watson. 2) Sign a free agent center with all or part of the exception (Davis? Motumbo?) and rely on Flip and Wilkins to back up the guard spots. My preference would be scenario 1.

David doesn't mention Fortson in his breakdown of minutes at the small/power forward spot, splitting them between Lewis, Collison and Radmonivic, with few left-over for Evans. Do you expect Fortson to play little-to-no minutes next year? Do you know something we don't? If you factor in Fortson and Radmonaivc comes back, there won't be any minutes for Evans.

Krizzer said...

Why does no one seem to be upset about AD leaving? Doesn't anyone recognize how important he was all last year? He was key in so many factors: consistancy, aggressiveness (who took more floor burns all year than Daniels?)leadership, attitude, ball handling, smarts. How could we just let him walk away - it's like we assumed he was gone and never tried to keep him. Which is a bummer, because at the end of the season he made it known he wanted to come back.

Also, what do the Sonics think they're doing? Talk about bad management - they let all these free agents, including our coach, linger until the end of the season instead of locking them up during the year, so now when we should be focusing on the free agent market, we're just trying to resign our guys. Are we going to stand pat again this year, while losing some of our most important players? Or are we going to wait until there's no one left on the free agent market who's worth anything? I don't understand. When is Wally Walker going to get canned?

Krizzer said...

Also, why all this attention to re-sign Radman when he's always been unhappy here and ALWAYS been very inconsistant. We should have put this effort into keeping Daniels.

Anonymous said...

Locke -- what are the odds that the Sonics do a sign and trade with Vlady? I see his skills but if he really wants to start and is going to bitch if he doesn't, that might be the best way to go. Once there are no teams left that are far enough under the cap to give him what he wants, he basically is limited to the one year or long term options with the Sonics or a sign and trade. To me, a long, defensive minded center or a big guy with some back to the basket skills fits better than Vlady at this point. Obviously, those are tough to come by.

david said...

I wanted Daniels back as much as anyone, but not at that price. Sure, he was valuable in the areas you mentioned but the Wizards totally overpaid. AD had his best season ever last year, lets not be so quick to assume he'll do it next year, let alone for four more. The Sonics didn't let him walk, if Locke's numbers are correct they made him a more than fair deal at 3 years, $15 million. I'm not sure I would've done that. Daniels supposedly wanted to come back, at least that's what he said at the end of the year. What is he going to say? Of course he will say that to the media.

Frankly, I think Daniels should take a bit of crap for the way he handled this in the media. He says he wants to come back after the loss to the Spurs, then later says he wants a starting job, and then a week ago blasts the Sonics in the media for not making him feel appreciated just so he can drive his market up. Now he takes a 5 year, $30 million dollar contract. I'm not going to begrudge the guy for taking the money, but why not call it like it is? If all he was about was geting the most security for his family why didn't he just come out and say so? I can respect that, I get irritated with these athletes who think they can't come out and say that. Sure, Daniels wanted to come back as long as the Sonics gave him the moon. Kudos to management for not making that mistake. He wasn't worth it.

Anonymous said...

5 years for AD was a bad move for the Wizards. He was great last year but his legs looked beat up and the track record of 30+ guards in the NBA is not good. I think both JJ and AD will eventually dissapoint for their new teams.

Having said that, I would have loved to see AD back on a 3 year deal.

Anonymous said...

David, how can u not be ripping the Sonics management by now.. I can see how they go cheap on the Coach, but the Sonics had 21 millon dollars under the cap the same as the Cavs and they sign Big Z, Larry Hughes and Donnyell Marshall and we sign Ray(which I love) and now the Sonics are claiming there strapped and close to going over the cap. Thats what I hate is people are actually stading for this and not ripping Howard, Wally, and Rick. If this was New York Wally would have been canned by now.

david said...

Believe me I've never been the biggest Wally Walker fan. I'm not a fan of the current ownership situation, either. In fact, my opinion on the current management is that they either need to commit themselves to losing a fair amount of money until they get the arena situation resolved or they need to look at selling the team to an ownership group that is willing to do so.

Just because I'm dissatisfied in general with the ownership and management group doesn't mean I disagree with every move. Yeah, the Sonics have money to spend but that doesn't mean you use it on a terrible contract. That's a crazy contract that AD got.

I've got plenty of criticisms for management. The real mistake management made was not finding a way to get a good PG in the draft. If we find a way to draft Jack instead of a center who might be good at some point this AD issue is mute. If we do that, then all we need to is sign a big man for the mid-level exception. Speaking of which, why didn't the Sonics sign Swift? What is with the fascination of international players? I'm not a big fan of management but I know a bad deal when I see one.

Myk said...

Wow you'd think we had lost two great All-Star players in James and Daniels. Both of those teams are going to regret those questions for years and years to come (Kevin Ollie anyone..)

Lets face it Daniels had his career year last year and suprise suprise it happened right before a new contract came out. Us Seattle fans need to start becoming smarter at evaluating players..every year it seems like we have players who do great (Boone in '01 for example) and we think that means they are great players and therefore should pay them at all costs...

Myk said...

Quick follow up on AD...I took a look at his stats and am confused why everyone is so dissapointed.

Sure his scoring was up to 11.2 PPG but he also shot only 44% (second worst % in his career). He only grabbed 3 boards a game and didn't even average one steal a game.

Thos sure sound like pretty replaceable numbers and don't give me the garbage about his leadership ability..Ray Allen is the leader of this team and everyone else must follow..not AD

david said...

I agree on all counts, myk. I would've liked to keep Daniels at the right cost (3 yers, $15 million) but to give him five years? Lets not overvalue Daniels or any other backup role player. He will be missed but the Sonics made him a fair offer and he bolted. That's his choice, but don't blame the Sonics for not giving in. He's a role player; a key one, but he's not part of their nucleus.

Lets be real here, there was one player the Sonics had to sign this offseason and that was Ray Allen, and they did that. Sure, I hope they get Vlade back and fill in the other peices but they got the one guy they had to.

Nick said...

What the Sonics fans fail to realize is that this type of action occurs every year on nearly every team. Sonics managment is doing their job.

You draft smart, build a core and rotate in back ups and fill in a slot or two on the starting five.

Look at San Antonio.. They've had almost a totally different roster all 3 title wins. Only their core of Tim, Manu and Tony have been constant.


As for AD leaving, you cannot be serious Sonic fans.. You're going to offer AD starting money for five years? Just say thanks to Antonio and wish him luck in DC..

Also, whats with everyone still on Wally Walkers ass? The guy got rid or Calvin Booth for Danny! What has he done recently thats hurt this team?

As far as i can see the Sonics are still on the way up. They've drafted well the last couple seasons. Vlady, Lewis, Luke and Nick [We'll see with Robert Swift and Petro..] They've made great free agent pick ups, evaluated talent very well in getting Reggie and Damien for nothing..

Call me crazy but i cant see how current managment is doing a "bad" job.

Anonymous said...

Nick,

I can't agree with you more, on all counts.

kel said...

Nick -- you are absolutely correct. I am sick to death of people calling the Sonics "cheap" and blaming Wally Walker for everything from Valdy's god-awful corn rows to the obscene price of gas. Yes, Wally has made some mistakes -- as every other frickin' GM has -- but what makes Wally and Sonics management great is that they have been able to recover so well from those mistakes (unloading Vin Baker and Calvin Booth were small miracles!)

And what was the last obvious mistake they made? Booth? That was years ago and I recall Nate was a pretty big advocate of brining Calvin in.

Yes, the Sonics are value-focused, but that has not prevented them from building an excellent core nucleus without a single "mistake" player currently eating up payroll. Overpaying is the kiss of death in this league. There's a lot of teams out there lining up to use the new "amnesty clause" to dump high-salary mistake players -- Dallas will dump Finley, NY will dump Houston, Portland may dump Anderson or Ratlif -- it's a real testament to Sonics' management that we don't even have anyone we would consider dumping.

Jeremy said...

Now that Stro Swift is off the board, I'd like to see the Sonics take a look at a sign-and-trade with the Cavs for Drew Gooden. Last week, one of the Cleveland papers (I believe it was the Akron Beacon Journal) reported that the Cavs were interested in acquiring Reggie Evans for Gooden. Since the Cavs just signed Donyell Marshall, the Gooden trade "smoke" has continued to pour out of Cleveland.

Gooden is in the last year of his deal, has the Kansas ties with Collison, and will likely put forth max effort this year to secure himself a lucrative contract.

I really appreciate the lunch pail effort Evans has provided over the past couple years, but the Sonics could really use a legit low post threat on the offensive end to create more open looks for the shooters.

Gooden's averages last year were 14.4 PPG, 9.2 RPG, 49% FG, and 82% FT. If the Cavs will go straight up for Reggie Evans or even for Reggie Evans and a draft pick, I'd make that deal today.

Myk said...

Jeremy,
Gooden has been on three teams in 3 years, that just does not happen with a top 3 pick. When there is smoke like that there has to be a fire. The Sonics should not overextend themsevles for a player that can stay on teams that need PF..

jeremy said...

myk,

Gooden was drafted by Memphis. He was stuck behind Pau Gasol at the 4. Memphis wanted him to play the 3, which didn't work out, so they traded him to Orlando.

Orlando kept him and played him at the 4 for a year until they drafted Dwight Howard. He was then traded to Cleveland by John Weisbrod, who is now a hockey scout and one of the worst basketball GM's in recent memory.

Cleveland just underwent a front office purge with the Paxson regime ending and the Ferry regime beginning. When a front office, such as Cleveland has money to spend, they will try to bring in "their guys".

I personally think Marshall is one of the most underrated players in the game and his signing was a great move.

There have been plenty of guys, such as Jason Kidd, Rasheed Wallace, Chris Webber, who were drafted high and moved around the league before establishing themselves as stars.

Baskeballreference.com lists Gooden's similarity scores to Carlos Boozer, Zach Randolph and Nene of guys who are playing currently. I would love to have any of those guys on my team for $3M.

Nick said...

myk's right. Theres a reason Gooden has bounced around so much in just a couple years.

I like Samuel Dalembert alot, he's just 24 and averaged 8 and 8 last season. Though i have no idea how much he's really worth.

Also, anyone notice that Antoine Walker is an option? The Sonics can make an offer more than the mid level, something the other teams pursuing him cannot.

Diezel said...

How can u not say Wally is on the cheap... We got Ray back which is huge, but where are the rest of the moves. The free agent signing period starts at midnight and who's left. Earl Watson? your going to pay him the mid-level exectption when u could have drafted "Slim" Stoutamire and had basically the same thing but a money 3 point shooter. The Soncis should really look at Chris Duhon, Keyon Dooling, Janero Pargo or Chucky Atkins(expendable) to back up Luke. I love Reggie, but I know you saw his offensive game or lack of in the San Antonio series, he couldn't hit a wide open layup if his life depended on it. I think Tyson Chandler defensively would be great, but I think he's restricted so Chicago can match any offer. Plus the Bucks even spent money this off season they signed Redd, Gadzuric, and Bobby Simmons. So if u say the Sonics aren't on the cheap you need to really get a clue. When the cavs and the bucks outspend U your in trouble. The millon dollar question is with basically the same team from two years ago are we going to be the team from two years ago or are we going to be the Northwest division champs again. I heard Bob Weiss's interview with Locke, and he said he wants to run and gun more?? So we can basically be the Phoenix Suns North. I mean we will be fun to watch in the regular season but then sputter out in the Second round. Tell me the last run and gun team that didn't play D who won a Championship?? So I assume all u Sonic fans that are happy with the Off season must be contempt with Second round losses in the Playoffs. For me personally though I want to see them raise a banner in the Key next to the Storms just like the Lakers/Sparks.

Jeremy said...

Dalembert has been rumored to be in the 5 yr, 70M range from Atl. and Philly may match that. He's got decent potential, but not at that number. Chicago has stated they will match any offer for Chandler.

I'm not sure if I feel that Robert Swift is ready for 20-25 minutes per night, so another big is a need. My feel on Collison has always been nice role player/fringe starter.

An interesting thought I've had that probably won't happen would be to bring back GP to back up Luke. I don't know if he would want to come back as Luke's backup, but if he wanted to come back and finish his career out where he started, he's as good of an option as any PG's the Supes may be looking at.

Jack W said...

Nick-

You're right losing players to free agency or other reasons occurs throughout the league. You're example of San Antonio is a bad one. The Spurs have had two number one picks(Robinson and Duncan)and it's a lot easier to build a championship team around legitimate big men. Another key point is that the Spurs have done well with scouting and drafting players in the low first and second rounds of the draft. Also, they have signed impact free agents and made necessary trades allowing them to compete for a championship.

The two biggest compliments I can give to Wally and the management team is that they have done very well in the draft and have made some good trades.

Some notable players they've drafted in the last 12 years : L.Ridnour, N.Collison, R.Lewis, B. Jackson(SAC), D. Christie(ORL), V.Radmanovic, M.Blount(BOS), W.Green(PHI), B.Simmons(MIL), E.Watson(MEM), D.Mason(MIL), C.Maggette(LAC).

Wally has made some decent to good trades, but has produced some bad ones, too.
The decent/good: Hawkins for Gill, Fortson for Booth, and Allen, Flip, Ollie, and first round draft choice(Ridnour) for Mason and Payton. The Bad: Grant and Ewing trades.

What have they done to keep talent around? I don't hear many ex-Sonic players make positive comments regarding management. On the otherhand, I hear some great compliments regarding the Spurs organization(AD, S.Elliott, S.Kerr, D.Robinson...).

Overall, the Sonics have done a poor job in free agency. I like the moves they made with letting go of Barry, JJ, and AD; they weren't worth their contracts. Also, orginally picking up Barry, AD, Evans, and Wilkins were decent/good moves. Two of the three biggest blunders they've made(J.McAlvaine, C.Booth, and V.Baker)have haunted the team until last year. Now the Sonics have just the Fortson(Booth) contract to deal with for one more year.

The biggest problem with the Sonics is that Wally doesn't know how to make that next move(trade or free agent) to get over the top. Wally isn't going to build a champioship team with mid-first round or second round picks or the leftover free agents that are cheap. Over the last couple of years, most of the Western Conference playoff teams(San Antonio, Phoenix, Houston, Dallas, Utah, Denver) have acquired at least one impact free agent. What's Wally doing? He's waiting for teams to set the market for the Sonics free agent's, while the impact fa's are picked up by teams that are trying to win a championship. In addition, it will only take one team to offer the Sonics fa's a high dollar contract that Wally is unprepared to match. The Sonics could easily lose half of their free agents. That's okay if can bring in a better replacement, but it doesn't look like those players will be available.

I hear from management we're building for the future... When does that future become now? Must we go through another four, five plus years to say okay we're trying to win the chamionship now?

The off-season isn't over and there's time left for Wally, but it isn't looking good. Wally, has all the opportunity in the world to re-make the team as he envisions it. If they don't get a decent center, a legitimate third guard, and sign the majority of their fa's then the Sonics will be a .500 team next year.

Another frustration I have with management is over the arena lease. Did Wally participate in the original negotiations? Did Schultz evaluate the lease when he became the majority owner? While it may be a terrible deal for the Sonics, shouldn't management take some of the responsibility?

Anyway, I hope Wally makes the right moves and puts together a championship team. He's had over 11 years to do it, with no success. How long should it take? As a long-time Sonic fan, I won't be holding my breath.

Nick, can I call you crazy? IMHO, I can't understand how people could view this situation as good or even okay.

Nick said...

Diezel..

"How can u not say Wally is on the cheap..."

I think cheap is a harsh word. I think the Sonics are smart and reasonable with their money.

"..when u could have drafted "Slim" Stoutamire.."

He has a major attitude problem and is totally undersized. This is not the culture the Sonics are about.

"So if u say the Sonics aren't on the cheap you need to really get a clue. When the cavs and the bucks outspend U your in trouble."

Again, no one is saying the Sonics arent "cheap". The Sonics arent going to overpay. The majority of the teams in the league have blown the salaries so out of wack.. New York.. I mean my god New York. Also just because a team spends money on players, doesnt mean they're going to win. You cannot just toss money at players and expect them to win a championship.

Lets look at the top ten money spenders this past year.

1)New York Knicks
2)Dallas Mavericks
3)Portland Trail Blazers
4)Philadelphia 76ers
5)Minnesota Timberwolves
6)Memphis Grizzlies
7)Indiana Pacers
8)Boston Celtics
9)Sacramento Kings
10)Los Angeles Lakers

With the exception of the Lakers, none of these teams have won a title in the past 10 years, some never. Some havent even made it out of the second round! Money does not equal titles..


"I heard Bob Weiss's interview with Locke, and he said he wants to run and gun more?? So we can basically be the Phoenix Suns North."

He also said he wanted to simplify the defensive schemes, because too often last season, players were totally confused. Nate's system was far too complex, with multiple ways of defending the pick and roll [most teams have one or two defensive sets].

Also, i cannot blame him wanting to open up the offense. Luke needs to play an uptempo style. He thrived in a run and gun offense at OU. I see Rashard becoming even more effective in the offense, as teams can hardly leave him one on one as is..but in a faster pace i think Rashard can be down right murderous against other teams.

Nick said...

"The Sonics are a classically squeezed team, certainly they have one of the worst economic arrangements," Stern said.

"For Ackerley, he got a new facility without any investment by giving up revenue streams that normally would have gone to the team, to help us pay off the debt service. That worked for him, and it worked for a while, as long as the team was performing at a high enough level to draw fans."

Yay!

Anonymous said...

The Sonics not planning for A.D.'s departure will come back to haunt them. I know that he was overpaid by the Wizards, but not drafting a capable point guard or signing a free agent was very foolish. I don't see Mateen or Flip as the answer. They are not ballhandlers like A.D. was. They should have traded up to get Jarret Jack or even Nate Robinson. If they don't answer this problem before the season starts, you can kiss the playoffs goodbye.

david said...

I agree 100%. I've been fairly suportive of the decisions management has made this offseason but their draft strategy was a big mistake. I don't care what the scouts say about Petro and the other picks. How are those going to help us this year? They aren't, the Sonics had an opportunity to make a trade with Utah (I think) and get Jarrett Jack and they passed it up to get Jezabell or whatever his name is.

I don't see how Flip is the replacement at PG. He's a nice backup SG who can score but he turns the ball over too much and isn't a natural PG. Of the remaining guys out there, I'd like to see the Sonics get Earl Watson. He seems like the only true PG that really would fit. But he won't give you what AD gave you, that's something we'll have to accept. Plus I don't know what he's looking for as far as salary goes. I also like Dixon, he's not a true PG either but I wouldn't be terribly disappointed if they went that route.

Jeremy said...

My only problem with drafting a PG is that traditionally, point guards take a couple years to develop. Sure there are exceptions, like Telfair last year, but look at Luke Ridnour, Shawn Livingston, Chauncey Billups, Antonio Daniels, etc. who took didn't contribute much their first year.

David, you wrote in a column recently about how great it was to draft big men, which I agree with. Now, for you to come off and rip the pick after writing that seems a bit hypocritical. Petro has Dalembert upside, and while he'll take a couple years to develop, it was a nice pick for their pick.

The Sonics have been successful over the past several years bringing in productive backup point guards. We need to see who they bring in before we crucify them for not drafting Jack. If you look back at Snow, Watson, Ollie and Daniels, we've had a pretty good track record.

Pendergraft is a good judge of talent, and I'd like to see what he can do.

david said...

Jeremy, I'm not Locke, perhaps I should've used a different name! LMAO

I'm not crucifying management, my point simply is that I would've liked to see them get a PG in the draft. I could be wrong, I'm not a professional scout. I'm willing to give management the benefit of the doubt, but it sounds to me like they're content with Flip as the backup PG which I strongly disagree with. Like I said previously, I'll be satisfied if they can bring Watson or another true PG who would fit in.

I'm not knocking the Petro pick for the future, but there were obvious needs for the Sonics this offseason and I feel like they should've used at least one of their picks to fill one of them. I like Pendergraft, I think he's a good judge of talent. Again, I'm not saying these guys won't turn out but it puts the team in a tough situation for the upcoming season or two.

Diezel said...

Nick... I agree with u on the fact that money does not buy a championship unless u spend it right and I love your list. I do disagree with u about "Slim" though they said the same things about Gilbert Arenas when he came out and he slipped to the second round and look at him today, also look at the track record for Zona' guards in the NBA, besides maybe Khalid Reeves and Miles Simon for the most part they have been productive NBA players. I disagree with u on Rashard as well if u realll look at the Soncis last year when Rashard was matched up against smaller 3's(i.e. Melo) and he made a commitment to go to the post he couldn't be stopped one on one. That's whats so frustrating about Rashard sometimes no 3 man can check him because he's to big, and no 4 can guard him because he's to quick. I don't know if it's his easy going personality or what, but when he wants to dominate he can take over games. I will give Wally some, more to Rick Sund for drafting Nick and Luke but to be honest there was not any body available even at 12 and 14 because that draft was so loaded at the top.i.e Bron,Melo,Dwayne Wade,Bosh....but the did make a good move they drafted Willie Green, but then they trade him for some stiff u hasn't even smelled the Soncis roster. And as good as some people think the Vlade pick was here are some names Wally passed on Richard Jefferson, Troy Murphy, Zach Randolph, Samuel Dalembert, Jamaal Tinsley and Tony Parker. So to pass on those guys they didn't do that good of job. I am not going to waiver as a fan, but if they bring Flip back even at 3 mill a year I will really laugh and scratch my head on that one. If u are going to pay your backup 3 millon I'd rather see Chris Duhon or Keyon Dooling. And for anyone who wants to keep Reggie, I love the guys heart but just watch the San Antonio series he's undersized to play the big 4's in the West, just the facts and he has ZERO offensive game, at least Ben Wallace this year worked on his offense and actually was a offensive contributor at some points instead of a liability. I am not saying just give Reggie away because the guy does have value, but I agree with Locke how many minutes can he get especially if they bring Vlade back. I do agree with Elise though he does make up for Rashard and Vlades lack of rebounding, but I feel Nick is ready to make up for that, I mean basically last year he was a Rookie and if u look at what he did at Kansas he was a rebounding machine, and he has a more O than Reggie. Don't go and get Dru Gooden though, we don't need anymore 4's who play like a 3. I would not mind getting Anderson Verejo though. His numbers are not that good, but with the NBA season pass I was able to watch alot of Cavs games and he came in a gave the Cavs a nice insurance policy for Z. He's very athletic has a curly afro, can block shots and has a nice mid range game. The knock of course as in all Euro's is that he's soft.(which Reggie isn't) and I don't thinkd Clevland would trade him even though they gave Z a huge deal he can never stay healthy. I read eveyones posts and Locke has fans that no what they are talking about and come with some facts not just some hot air. And even though alot of people on this blog disagree with each other, I respect everyones opionion.

Myk said...

Im confused I would like to know what people would have wanted to do this offseason, now that you know that AD and JJ were going to get deals that made absolutely no sense...and remember they need to keep a decent amount of their money around to keep Vlade or renounce his rights.

The Sonics are caught in one of the dumbest things about the NBA Salary Cap. From my understanding if you are even $1 dollar over the cap you get the mid-level exception ($6 million the year?) but if you are even $1 less you don't get that exception. Where that kills the Sonics is that they may have a bunch of FA but to keep a player like Vlade they have to set aside most of their money because if they don't a team can just go and offer a contact more than the sonics have on their cap..even though every team over their cap gets an extra 6 million to play with. It is crap that teams like the Knicks can go out and sign players (at least they are dumb about it) with this free money in the cap but teams that are under the cap are required to only spend up to the cap number.

With all that said I still think the Sonics are making the right call. Too many times in the past they have gone out and overpaid for people and every time it seems to bite them in the a$$. The NBA is a superstars league and we have one of the superstars and if Rashard keeps improving hopefully we have a good #2. Where the Sonics do a good job is that they don't have other players on the team trying to steal the spotlight, instead they know their roles and play them to the best of their ability.

To win a championship you need a dominant big man, and to get a dominant big man you need to draft one because once a team has one it is impossible to get him to move to another team (anyone think Amare is leaving PHO?) so I don't mind the Petro pick. It would have been pointless to draft another young PG who would obviously want to be the man but always be stuck behind Ridnour..

THINK CLEARLY PEOPLE

kel said...

Diezel -- You are right about the posters on this blog. Everyone is bringing it and we are having some excellent discussions, eventhough we don't all agree.

I am definitely on board with Nick 100% although I agree with Diezel on Reggie Evans. I love the heart, but I just don't think he will fit with Collison's expanded roll and Vlade. Yes, we will miss his rebounds -- but Collison is a good rebounder and will get better -- and don't forget we've got Forston, who if he can keep his head straight, is an excellent rebounder and much better finisher than Evans. With Collison and Fortson, I am not to worried about the rebounds.

David -- Yes it would have been nice to get someone in the draft to fill a need, but at pick number 23 the odds are against finding anyone who can fill that roll, so you might as well pick the big guy with the best potential. If they were 2 or 3 picks higher, then maybe they grab an NBA-ready guard -- look at the 5 picks before (Hodge, Robinson, Jack, Garcia, Head) but unfortunately no one slipped and at 23 was a crapshoot. (Sorry Diezel, you make good points but I still consider Slim a bit of a risk at his size, and if I'm taking a risk anyway I'm going ofr the big man.)

MYK -- you are right on the money. Bad, big money deals are what cripple NBA teams, and the Sonics are playing it smart. There are a lot of comments criticizing the Sonics for being cheap, for letting talent go, and for not building a better answer. How have the Sonics been cheap this off-season? Should they have matched Jerome James' offer? Should they have matched AD's offer? Should they have matched Nate's offer? Is anyone going to argue that these are mistakes? Nothing that has happened so far has been a surprise except for Nate leaving, so I think all of this talk about the sky falling is premature.

There is still plenty of time for the Sonics to work on resiging their own guys and bringing in another complimentary player or two -- let's wait and see what they do. They already have five of the top eight wrapped up: Ray, Rashard, Luke, Collison, Fortson. They are in the driver's seat with Vlade, and then they need a vetran center and a back-up guard. That's not many holes to fill so give them a chance. I hear Juan Dixon will be in town this weekend and they really like him.

Myk said...

Slim Staudamire?!?! How can anyone who lives in a city of a Pac-10 team and therefore got to watch this guy play for four years want him on their team?

Talk about a head case, I don't care if he had talent or wasn't 5'10" that guy will need a serious attitude adjustment to make it in the NBA. Personally as a Sonics fan I want players I can root for and feel good knowing that they are giving it their all every night...Staudamire is the complete opposite of that in every way.

Also, just in basketball terms why would we want an undersized back up PG when we already have an undersized starting PG. That is why AD and Luke worked so well together you could actually play them at the same time if you had to because AD was taller and could guard the 2

david said...

I’m actually pretty 50/50 on Evans, I agree that Reggie is a great rebounder snf shows tremendous heart and energizes the team and crowd when he’s in there. But again, how much of a role is there for him this year? Nick’s minutes are rightfully going to expand to around 25 or 30, then you throw in Vlade and Danny there is not a lot there. Reggie is not a center and that’s the only way I can see him getting enough minutes. I think Locke had mentioned a deal with Cleveland that could possibly involve Luke Jackson and I’d be somewhat open to that. It would certainly give us more flexibility.

As far as the draft goes, that’s why I’m not really ripping management a new one, they were in a tough position at 23 with most of the guys they coveted gone. I didn’t really have an issue with the Petro pick. It’s the second round pick that I am taking issue with. As I recall, the Nuggets were looking to move Jack and I think all they wanted was a second round pick. Sonics scouts were high on Gelabale and I guess it’s a wait and see approach. I don’t buy the argument that a rookie PG would demand to play right away, right now Jack is the backup PG in Portland, you’re telling me he wouldn’t be the same here? I would’ve liked to see them get Jack, but I’m willing to give them the benefit of the doubt. They’ve had recent success with Vlade, Nick, and Luke so we’ll see what happens with Swift, Petro, and Gelabale.

I’ve got no problem with the decisions the Sonics have made in free agency this offseason. They haven’t been cheap this offseason, they’ve evaluated the situation and made smart decisions. I don’t understand how people can rip management for not resigning JJ or AD. The contracts they got were crazy! I was willing to bring back AD at three years, but five years for a guy who has maybe two good years left? Bringing back JJ was a longshot at best, I knew some GM would throw crazy money at him. He’s the biggest tease. If we offer those two contracts this franchise is crippled for five years.

Again, I’m willing to wait and see what happens the remainder of the offseason. I couldn’t be more thrilled that they got Ray locked up, but they still have work to do. If they could sign Dixon I’d be fine with that, although he’s not as big as AD but like I said before we aren’t going to find another AD. I’m intrigued by the Vlade situation, it sounds like it will get worked out but I wonder what the future is there. It’s a bad situation in the middle, but we’ll see what happens.

I concur with what Diezel and kel said, we may not all agree but it’s nice to have a good debate, everyone is bringing up excellent points.

kel said...

David -- I agree with you, Ireally liked Jack as a potential backup for Luke, and if the Sonics could have had him by dealing their second round pick, then I'm kicking myself. But like you said, if the Sonics managmeent deserves credit for anything, it's for scouting and drafting the past few years -- so I guess I would be stupid not to give them the benefit of the doubt until they prove otherwise.

Diezel said...

MYK... You made a great point about big men but at 25, how good can he be? and as why I would want "Slim" 1rst after he was benched by Lute last year that was a total wake up call for him, and after that he started going off. You don't remember the udub game in zona? or the oky state game. The guy has ice water in his vains he doesn't shy away from the big shot and just look at the Zona' pedigree it speaks for itself along with G tech is there another school that pumps out stud guards. And I know he's not the tallest but if u have been following the Soncis Summer league, you know that they are high on Aaron Miles, you remember the Cuse game??? So I am pretty sure if it came between Slim and Aaron Miles most would pick Slim. I am not saying the Sonics are cheap by not signing JJ and AD I agree theres no way we could match those deals. But where were we on Donyell Marshall, who can do what Vlade can do except he's a little cheaper and would have gave them room to sign a backup Center or combo 1/2. And like Krizzer said Today is the first day free agents can sign and we spent all our time after July 1 I am not sure what we have been doing since we locked up Ray. I agree with Jared Jack but there was no way they would give him up for a second rounder when they just drafted him in the First. And as much as I loved Lukes play last year we obviously needed AD in the playoffs last year. I can't agree with Locke though if u have a 3 guard rotation of Ray, Luke , and Flip where is your Perimeter D coming from??? As much as I love Ray and Luke, you have to admit they both got torched defensevly in the playoffs. In fact Cuttio Mobley should break Ray off for that fat contract he got. I think Luke will be better with the Playoff experience but if he's not then who do we turn to with AD gone? Flip? those stats Locke busted out were great but the reason the guy scores when he plays is cuz all he does is shoot hence the 1.4-1 assist to turnover ratio which is horrible for a Point. I could live with Earl Watson coming back. I think Juan Dixon is overated totally. He was in Eddie Jordans doghouse last year about as much as Kwame was, the only difference is Juan acutually had a couple of big games in the playoffs but also had some stinkers.. and the fact that the guy is a LEGEND in the D.C. area. If they were to get a decent backup other than Flip, sign and trade Reggie or Vlade I will admit this offseason then becomes a success when u parlay the fact that they got number 1 done in signing Ray Ray.(Sorry Nate)

Nick said...

For the record i like Reggie as a solid 7th-8th man. If he recieves an offer as outragous as AD or JJ, he's gone and i really could care less.

Not to harp, but Antoine Walker anyone? Again, im not sure how serious it is..but we DO have the money.

Also, myk...yes the Salary Cap is garbage in Seattle's case, if its true. I'll see if i can call Locke and have him clarify it.

AND, yes, Salim is a headcase. Maybe he will fit in eventually like Ricky Davis did, but it took Ricky quite a while to realize he had to shut his mouth and ball. Also, there were reports that Lute Olson told Salim to declare or transfer towards the end of last season. Yikes!

Let's keep this going! Fun to talk it out in a fairly polite forum with some intelligent fans.

Jack W said...

In a 48 minute game, a team has 240 minutes of player time. Looking at a possibility for the 05-06 season, I see Seattle going with a nine man rotation(Ridnour, Allen, Lewis, Collison, Potapenko, Radmanovic, Flip, Fortson, Wilkins).

Minutes/player:

Ridnour- 35
Allen- 35
Rashard- 35
Radmanovic- 35
Collison- 30
Flip- 25
Potapenko- 15
Fortson- 15
Wilkins- 15
Evans- ?
Swift- ?
Cleaves- ?

I would like to see the Sonics trade for a legitimate defensive center or a power forward(like C.Bosh(TOR) and a legitimate third guard(like E.Watson, D.Jones, or M.Jaric).

I remember hearing(maybe from Sund) a plan for the Sonics in where they would build up there roster with 12 good players. Then trade a few of those players for one better player. Does anyone remember that idea? I wish I could find a documented source that listed the details. Anyway, I like that idea. Who wouldn't want a forward that can score and rebound?

If the trade exists with Rad, Flip, Evans, and draft picks; I hope the Sonics can get a center/power forward. If they trade both Evans and Rad then sign Pot or another center(3 mil or less).

Most likely a trade of Rad, Evans, and Flip for Bosh doesn't exist. What they could have done is sign a player like S. Abdul-Rahim. Trade Rad, Evans, and Flip for a decent center and/ point guard. They would still be under the cap.

1- Ridnour(30)
2- Allen (35)
3- Lewis (35)
4- SAR or Collison(30)
5- X (15)
------
Collison/SAR (30)
X (30)
Wilkins (25)
Fortson (15)
Swift
Cleaves
?

X - could be Wilcox and Jaric from the Clips...or a three-way trade could easily be conjured up. I'm not proposing that specific trade.
I was just trying to provide a decent example.

Phoenix would be a good example of what I would like to see the Sonics do. That got rid of their redundant player(Q.Richardson) and brought in a big. Then they went out and signed a third guard.

Most likely the top scenario would be the closest to what the Sonics are planning. I just don't see much room for Evans. Plus,I would hate to see Flip be the third guard and get 25+ minutes/night. I think Wilkins is a better all around player and would prefer to see him get 25 over Flip. Unfortunately, Wilkins isn't a point guard. The above team would score a lot of points, but would lack consistent defense. Even if the core avoided a major injury, the Sonics wouldn't reach 50 wins.

Anonymous said...

http://bojack.org/ << ernie kent

Locked on Sports said...

THESE POSTS ARE INCREDIBLE. YOU GUYS ARE ON IT AND HAVE A GREAT GRASP OF WHAT IS REALLY TAKING PLACE. THIS IS THE BEST BASKETBALL DISCUSSION I HAVE READ IN SOME TIME. WELL DONE AND THANKS.

Reaction to many of these comments.
1) The Sonics couldn't have extended most of these players during the season because you could only give them a 12% raise off their current deal.
2) 5 years for AD is a long time.
3) The Sonics are looking at sign and trade with Vitaly but they have to make sure they have a big man. Ideally they want some more length then Vitaly.
4) Nick's comments about how teams change in the off-season are the best on the board. You find a core set of players usually three (for the Sonics it is 5 right now) and then all the other parts are interchangeable. Most of all they must fit inside salary restraints.

Jeremy said...

JackW,

The strategy of stockpiling talent, while a good idea on paper, hasn't worked in reality. The team I'm referring to is Memphis, who has stockpiled an arsenal of talented young players, but has not been able to turn several goods into a great. Recently, they lost Stro Swift for nothing and traded Bonzi Wells today for more depth. They've managed to assemble a playoff team, but I don't see them making a championship run as currently constructed.

I would like to see the Sonics gravitate more toward a traditional game based on defense and a well executed half court set. My model for running an organization without a Duncan is Utah. They play Sloan's half court execution and defensive system, they tend to make wise moves in evaluating talent (esp if the fine folks in Cleveland would pull the pins out of their Boozer voodoo dolls)

The problem with my want is that none of the guys under contract are known for playing great defense and they do not excel in a half court game. Hopefully Bob Weiss can institute some type of team defense to cover the players individual defensive deficiencies.

I wouldn't mind trading Vlady at all since he doesn't really seem to want to be here, and he's neither a 3 nor a 4. He may have a break out year where he becomes a poor man's Peja, but I think his value is at its max right now. I'm betting he has a pretty similar year to last year with maybe a half step forward developmentally. While he creates mismatches on the offensive side of the floor, he also creates mismatches for the opposition on the defensive side of the floor.

Myk said...

Yeah I saw Slim Staudamire with ice in his veins against UW, I also remember his big pout and hard foul he did on Nate at the end of the game..CLASSIC HEADCASE

I never said that Jack would demand PT this year, but in year two and three I am sure since he was a first round draft pick he would want to start and we already have a young starting PG

We've all said everything we can say about the FA we need to sign but I think that it really all comes down to how much Ray Allen can keep his game at top level and how much more Rashard can improve. Every other player's performance directly correlates with how those two do. If Ray can give you another season like last year and Rashard takes that final leap to a boneafide night in and night out superstars (no playoff chokes...) then it really won't matter who the back ups are (to a point of course..)

Good debate everyone, something tells me a year or two ago there weren't even 10 people willing to discuss the future of the Sonics, my how basketball has changed in the great NW...

Myk said...

Anyone interested in Allan Houston if he gets dropped as Ray's back up? Lose Flip and sign Houston and Dixon as your two back up guards.

Diezel said...

myk... U must have been reading espn.com this morning as well. I would rather have Michael Finley myself as he seems a better fit for the Sonics, the only problem is that he might have a hard time coming off of the bench. Also I am not completely sold Cuban would get rid of him. As many times as the Maves have made moves the one untouchable has seemed to be Finley even over Dirk as his named was rumored to be in the Shaq deal last year. With the drafting of Devin Harris though, maybe that makes Jason Terry expendable, which to me would be a huge addition. I know Locke would hate that move as he really doesn't like Terry or Jamal for some reason.

Jack W said...

Jeremy-

Thanks, I was wondering if it was Memphis. What about the Pistons? They made a great trade for Rasheed. I think that's a good example of how it can work.

Typically, I think your right, it's better on paper than the real world. The Sonics had a chance last year to do it. I wonder if there were any opportunities.

Regarding the Jazz, who made who?
Malone/Stockton or the coaching of Sloan? No disrespect to Sloan, but I have to go with the players on this one. Obviously, it's a synergy of the players and coach. But with Stockton and Malone it was like one brain with two bodies. The half-court execution was a classic to watch!

I would like to see more traps and pressure defense in the backcourt. It was fun to watch the defense of Payton, McMillan, Hawkins, Askew, Wingate... in '95-'96. Maybe if the Sonics keep Wilkins and another hustle type player they could bring their defensive intensity up a notch.

Jefferyd32 said...

Just got back from a week long vacation, Reading ESPN.COM and they have not stopped talking about Antoine Walker coming to seattle. Please tell me this is not true. All the progress Nate made last year about "playing the game the right way" will be destroyed with this move. We already have one player who dominates the ball to get his points and it sounds like they want Flip to play a greater role next year. Please tell me the Sonics are not really thinking about Walker.

kel said...

Everything I have read about Antoine Walker has him as an option for the Sonics only if Vlade leaves. Locke now states that there is a 100% chance Vlade will return (whether on a one-year or long-term deal TBD) so I don't think you need to worry about Walker.

kel said...

I would love to see Allan Houston backing up Ray if we can get him cheap -- and since he will still be making maga-millions from NY, he may agree to sign for the 1 million exception (as would Finley, but I'm reading there could be a lot more competition for him.) But if we did bring in Houston, I would rather have a more traditional point like Watson as the other guard back-up, instead of Flip or Juan -- but we will likely need to move on the other guards well before Houston or any other "amnesty clause" cuts become available.

Diezel said...

PLEASE!!! no Toine' the guy has game but he is a really a 3 who plays more 4 and shoots more 3's than anybody and there is NOOOOO way he's going to come off the bench in my eyes. Plus he seems like almost a mirror of Rashard except Toine can board a little better. And I am not so sure Vlades coming back. The night AD signed Locke on his show said that they're were no offers other than the Sonics according to his sources. And like 10 minutes later Marc Stein outscooped him. As much as I love Lockes show I still remember he is a employee of the Soncis/Storm. Do u think maybe that could be the reason he's trying to pump up Juan Dixon so much? I loved how after the New Orleans game locke had Howard in the lockeroom, asking some pretty tough questions then when he had him on the show he was tossing some softballs. Whatever move we do we just need to do it soon as all the guys we want are being picked up. Juan Dixon is also I guess interested in Indiana according to Chad Ford, but it might not happen now as they signed that Sarrunus dude.

Myk said...

So I gotta ask, read that REALLY REALLY REALLY long article about Shawn Kemp in the Times this Sunday. What do people think about bringing him back?

Personally I wouldn't mind brining him in (as long as the price was right of course), based on the shape they said he was in he might have a year or two left. Low Risk/High Reward.

Another name to keep in mind if we don't sign Potapenko is Andrew DeClerq just got dropped by the Magic.

kel said...

Sorry to burst your bubble myk, but Greg Bishop who wrote the story on Kemp was on with Elise last night. He said Sonics management did not want to discuss Kemp with him and he got the feeling there was definitely still bad blood there. So although Kemp sounds like he is open to returning to Seattle, it appears that door is still shut on the Sonics end. Too bad, because I certainly wouldn't mind giving him a shot if the price was right.

kel said...

Diezel -- I agree I don't want Toine even if Vlade does not return. But the only way I see Vlade not returning is if they go the sign and trade route, and wouldn't it be interesting to see what we could get in return. Good point on Stein scooping Locke on the AD story. You are right that his word is not alway gold, but I sincerely doubt Locke is trying to butter us up for Dixon. If he was really trying to forward the Sonic's agenda, I think he'd be pushing Flip Murray as the answer, which obviously he is not. From where I sit, Flip and Dixon look pretty much the same and I'd still rather have Earl Watson bringing tough D off the bench. But you are right, they just need to get busy.

Jeremy said...

JackW,

In the mid 90's, the Sonics had an 8 man rotation. With the salary cap, that's about all that's feasible because of the outrageous escalation of salaries.

Detroit stealing Wallace from Atlanta was a classic rent a player deal as Wallace had publicly said he was going to New York once his contract ended. The Pistons didn't give up good pieces to get him, they screwed the Hawks on a bad trade.

Wallace was also carrying a lot of non-basketball baggage, which is something the current Sonics management team is loathe to do. If they could, the Sonics would be a team of Ray Allen clones in character.

Regarding Utah, the coaching job Sloan did in 03-04 was a master class in coaching. He developed Kirilenko into a star. The reason the Jazz were down last year was injuries to Harpring and Kirilenko, and the meltdown at the point guard position.

Top 5 coaches in the league: Phil Jackson, Larry Brown, Jerry Sloan, Greg Popovich, George Karl.

I would also love to see the Sonics get back to the mid 90's trapping and fast breaking style, but the pieces they have in place aren't conducive to that. No one will ever call Ridnour, Allen or Lewis as a shut down defender, and that's 3/4 of the current nucleus.

I wanted to see the Sonics let Allen go, pick up Larry Hughes, sign Donyell Marshall (obviously I love the job Ferry has done) and add the element of defense back to this team. Dallas has proven over the last several years that you can't win championships if you are only effective at one half of the court. Unfortunately, Sund has embraced the Dallas model to the detriment of the Sonics chances of bring home the rings.

I've been advocating Tyson Chandler for 3 years, but the Bulls aren't going to let him go. We'll just have to hope that Petro and Swift become defensive paint cloggers in 2 years.

Locked on Sports said...

There are so many comments. Do you guys want me to re-post the storuy so you can start a new thread or is it better to leave all the comments.

Jack W said...

Jeremy-

Good memory on the Detroit trade. I just looked it up to see how it all worked out. At the time, I thought Detroit did get a steal in that trade. In reality, it did cost them some decent second tier players and prospects.

FWIW, Detroit traded: Sura, Rebraca, L.Hunter, Atkins, 2- 1st round picks, and cash. The two picks ended up being Josh Smith(ATL) and Tony Allen(BOS). Sura and Atkins benefitted by getting more playing time. Detroit received: R.Wallace and M.James. Atlanta received: Rebraca, W.Person, Sura, Mills, Josh Smith. Portland received: SAR, Ratliff, and Dickau. Boston received: Atkins, Hunter, Tony Allen, and cash.

Also, R.Wallace was going to be a rent-a-player. He was going to leave Portland, Atlanta, and most likely Detroit. But, the Pistons got him signed. Especially with the re-signing and championship, the Pistons were the biggest winners of that trade. But the other teams got some value out of it as well.

I have trouble with judging coaches. I just have trouble quantifying how well they do their job in relation to other coaches throughout the league. I see when a coach fits and when he's out of place. For me, it's that simple.

An example, would be Karl vs. McMillan. Without going into the decision process, I truly thought it was time for Karl to go. I still liked him and still do, but not as a coach for the Sonics. On the otherhand, McMillan was just warming up as a coach. I was surprised and disappointed by his decision.

I understand Sloan has lots of respect throughout the league. Perhaps he is one of the top five coaches. But this is what I see:

02-03: Malone/Stockton/Harpring/Ostertag/ Collins...47-35

03-04:
Kirilenko/Harpring(31 g)/ Giricek/ Arroyo/ Bell/ Lopez/ Ostertag/ Collins...42-40

04-05:
Kirilenko(41 g)/ Boozer(51 g)/ Harpring/ Okur/ Bell(63 g)/ Giricek/ Lopez(31 g)/ Eisley/ Collins/ Mcleod/ Arroyo(30 g - traded)...26-56

I understand they got hit hard with injuries, but that's where the coach needs to adapt. How often did Sloan have to adapt without Malone and Stockton? Probably not much. They added Okur and Boozer from free agency. Plus, Harpring played almost the full year. I'm not saying they should've made the playoffs. I just think with those three players they should've been closer to the previous year's record. In two years, they've lost 21 games from the win to the lost column. That's not good any way you look at it.

I like Hughes, but he gets injured too often. Hopefully, Allen will avoid that problem.

Too bad we can't trade Radmanovic and Evans for Chandler. You're right, it looks like we'll be waiting for Petro and Swift to grow up.

Jeremy, thanks for taking the time answering the questions and for your comments.

Jack W said...

Locke-

Can you create a second page? That way we can still reference the old posts. Thanks.

Locked on Sports said...

reaction to all your great comments

* Ideal situation -- at this point i would say Juan Dixon, FLip Murray and Dale Davis and Reggie Evans

* Valady will be back. They will meet in the nexxt 7 days and iron out a deal.

* Their is a reason why Drew Gooden has been on 3 teams and the Cavs are trying to move him.

* Weiss said Swift will play every game but reports around the league are not good on his performance in Summer League

Myk said...

1) George Karl no matter how much I appreciated what he did in the early 90s is not one of the top five coaches in the League. If he was that great he wouldn't have been sitting on the sideline until Denver picked him up.

2) It is a shame that the Sonic management seems to let their "bad blood" effect so many of their moves. I totally understand the GP trade and at this point it obviously looks genius. However, I don't think any team should ever shut out an option just because of the past.

3) How long of a deal are they looking for in Dale Davis? He seems so old and he really isn't a center so it seems like were just duplicating Danny and our other PFs

4) Has there been any word on a sign and trade option with Vlade to New Orleans for Magloire. That was mentioned by ESPN.com's top rumor monger Chad Ford a week or so ago.

5) Is it the bad blood that is also preventing the signing of Earl Watson? It seems like if Vlade just ends up signing the tender offer the Sonics should have a bit more money than they planned.

6) I know we are going hard after Juan Dixon but have the Sonics looekd in Steve Blake it seemed like during my limited viewing of the Wizards he was really the Maryland guard that excelled.

7) Doesn't it make more sense to try and sign a very cheap veteran back up and send Petro to the D league for a year (or is that not possible for 1st round picks) seems like he is so raw that he could use all the PT he could get.

It is nice to be a part of a forum that is civil and for the most part (if not all) pretty well informed. It seems like every few hours I want to check back and see what others think...

Anonymous said...

I'd rather see the Sonics go after Zaza Pachulia than Dale Davis. He's restricted, but the Bucks already re-signed Gadzuric.

Jeremy said...

1. I don't think the Sonics need a longterm answer at C, like a Pachulia or Magloire. They have Swift and Petro on the way, and both should be contributing in 2 years. What they need is a short term patch at the center position, a guy like a Dale Davis.

2. The job Furious George did with the Nuggets last year was incredible. Under George, the Bucks were a perennial playoff contender and made the Eastern Conference Championship with a team that had no business being there. IIRC, he took that series to a game 7. George's personality grates on management and his lifespan in a place is about 5 years, but you can't argue the results.

3. The reason I'm hearing that the Cavs want to trade Gooden is that #23 doesn't like him.

Diezel said...

myk totally agree I think a Vlade for Magloire is a great trade it gives u a center who can rebound and block shots and score. I totally disagree with u about George Karl though... first the reason he was out of coaching is because he was great on ESPN and he makes too much money for alot of teams to afford I mean just take last year for example. He took a talented underachiving team over in the middle of the season and impimented his system and had the hottest team in the playoffs going into them. Don't u remember how scared everyone was to match up with either them or Houston in the first round?? and look at when he was with Milwaukee he got them with Big Dog, Sam, and Ray one game away from the Finals against the Lakers if it wasn't for AI he probably would have made it. And for u that don't remember when the Ray Gary deal was mad a lot of people thought Milwaukee got the better end of the deal as George publicly questioned Rays heart and defensive intensity. Which now is a no brainer who got the better end. George is not afraid to question or call out his players if they are not producing, which if you are thinned skinned can rub people the wrong way or tends to ware on you. Take Seattle and Milwaukee both situations ended bad for him. As much as wally has been given a get out of jail free card by most Sonic fans he has been associated with the last two coaches who have won a divison the previous year and then left to go to a losing team in George and Nate is this coincedence or Wally just being a bad president/Ceo????????

Myk said...

Diezel/Jeremey

Lets not get into too long of a debate about George Karl (not what this forum is about). However, I agree that he is a good coach but he can't be considered a great coach because he has never won a championship (despite many years of opportunites).

If he was such a great coach why wasn't he considered last year for the Lakers, Knicks or Philadelphia openings, I'm sure money really isn't a problem for those guys?

The Bucks team he took to the Eastern Conference Finals definately SHOULD have been at that point they were the #2 seed in the playoffs and that year overall was very weak for the Eastern Conference.

My top five coaches:

Jackson: Can't argue with the Rings

Brown: Everyone seems to think he is a genius

Poppavich: Can't argue with the Rings

Carlise: Best young coach out there

Sloane: Hasn't won a ring but years and years of consistency helps his case.

The way I judge a top coach is if the Sonics could have any coach who would I be really happy to see hired. Karl would fall in the second tier of the Van Gundys, Frank etc.

Diezel said...

MYK... I agree with u this is not a George Karl board but real quick I mean u say why did LA, NY, or Phili go for him. The fact that he was still being paid by the Bucks for one. Two I know he wanted to spend time watching his son play at BSU. And the fact he was GREAT on TV. and remember how hard the Lakers were Jocking coach K?? and you know the whole time Zeek had Larry Brown in the Cross hairs. And as far as you saying that u can't rank him top 5 cuz he has had a lot of chances and not won a ring, but u put Jerry Sloan on the list u has had way more chances than George, and Ric Carlisle as good as people think he is why then the year after he leaves Detroit with Basically the same team minus Sheed they win it all. I agree with Phil,Larry,Popp, 123 but I would put either Sloan or George next. The reason the Nuggets job was so intiguing to him is his relationship with Stan Kroenke. And if I am not mistaken I thingk Golden State tried to get him before going for Mike Montgomery.

Myk said...

Diezel, regarding Carlisle you answered your own question. The reason they won the title was beacuse they got Rasheed and Carlisle didn't have Rasheed when he coached the Pistons. Look at their record post trade and you will see they were pretty good but nothing special until that trade

Anonymous said...

VLADY RADMANOVIC
Locke Chance of Return: 100%.
Mine: 85%

REGGIE EVANS
Locke Chance of Return: 75%
Mine 60%

FLIP MURRAY
locke Chance of Return: 75%
Mine 40%


DAMIEN WILKINS
Chance of Returning: 35%]
mine 55%

VITALY POTAPENKO Chance of Returning: 25%
Mine 40%

Anonymous said...

what would happen if radmanovic went to europe for a year? the sonics cant prevent that and i doubt they'd having matching rights for this year. but would he still be sonic property if he wanted to come back next year? maybe, but it doesnt seem like he should. that might be an out or just a strategy for rad. i think he could get a $3 million contract in europe so the pay could be about the same as staying. maybe he could just use this as a threat to try to get the sign and trade he realy wants but the sonics havent bitten on and dont really want to. just an angle i hadnt heard considered

infinite said...

deizel said

"That's whats so frustrating about Rashard sometimes no 3 man can check him because he's to big, and no 4 can guard him because he's too quick"

the problem with that is that Lewis can't dribble well. he just doesn't have the handles to use that quickness. but you know who does? he's the other player on the team with a 7 on his jersey, he has two of them. Vlad has handles, you just never saw it because Mcmillan was strict in controling the gaurds.He has the abilities and maybe with Weiss opening up the offense you'll have the ability to see this part of his game.

Myk said...

My problem with Rashard is that when he is in the post he doesn't make a quick move. Right when he gets the ball he needs to attack the hoop. Instead he sits and waits for the post defender to set his position which makes it 10xs harder for him. He doesn't seem like a real quick thinker on the court. The great ones have the ability to think 2 and 3 seconds ahead and Rashard just doesn't show it..he is a great number 3 player we just need that dominating number 2

Anonymous said...

24 hours later after posted my chances on resigning, a report comes out that seattle may be considering trades for radmanovic (and are having a formal meeting with him to discuss his future) and murray, so estimating that they were less likely to return than locke seems on track. and now locke reports wilkins is less likely to go to portland, which i also expected.

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