Monday, August 01, 2005

SONICS TO SIGN RICK BRUNSON AS BACK-UP POINT



950, KJR'S Locked on Sports reports that according to sources inside the NBA, the Sonics have come to a one-year agreement with Rick Brunson. Brunson, 32, is a 8 year veteran in the NBA. Brunson will be the back-up to Luke Ridnour.
Last season the Sonics played a three-guard rotation, however in the 2005-06 season the Sonics are anticipating that they will have a 4-guard rotation. Brunson stand at 6 foot 4 inches tall and weighs 190 pounds. His size is a nice compliment to Ridnour.
Last season, Brunson played 80 games, starting 39, with the LA Clippers averaging 24 minutes a game. He scored 5 points per game and averaged 5 assists. In his 39 starts last season he averaged 7 points, 7 assists and 3 rebounds.
His assist to turnover ratio was an impressive 5.1 to 1.56. This is very similar to what Daniels brought to the floor for the Sonics.
His shooting is not a strong point. He is a career 38% from the field. On the positive side he should be able to stretch the defense as a career 36% three point shooter. Over the past two seasons, Brunson has really added the three to his game and has hit 206 of 547 attempts for 38%
This will be the Temple graduates 7th team in the NBA. He started his career as an undrafted free agent with the Portland Trailblazers. Since he has bounced around, but a great sign of what type of player and person Brunson is that three teams have had him back for a second run.
According to sources the contract is a 1 year deal for the minimum contract. That will not count against the Sonics mid-level exception.


LOCKE’S TAKE –
This isn’t going to wow anyone but it makes a lot of sense. The Sonics have decided to play a 4 guard line-up next season with Brunson backing-up of Ridnour. Brunson is the ultimate back-up point guard. He doesn’t turn the ball over. He is just good enough that he can hurt the other team. He has been through so much as a player that you know he isn’t going to rock the boat wanted more time or more shots. His performance this last year with the Clippers was strong enough that if Ridnour gets hurt he could run the team for a short period of time.
The real issue is with Ridnour’s development and the likelihood that he will be playing 34 minutes a night next season the Sonics have moved into a realm where the back-up point guard becomes an interchangeable part every two years or so. Therefore, Brunson is a very good answer at the back-up position.
Interesting comparison to who AD was when the Sonics acquired him. Daniels last year in Portland he average 3.7 points and 1 assist in 13 minutes a night. I doubt Bronson will be able to what AD did last year for the Sonics, but you would have never imagined AD would have done that when he came to Seattle.

376 comments:

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kel said...

We can all rest easy now that we know they won't be relying on Flip at the point. Although it's not a glamorous signing, I think this is a solid move -- a larger-than-average vetran ball handler who doesn't make many mistakes is exactly what the Sonics needed to back up Luke. And he's dirt cheap!

The good news is that since this does not count against the exception, we can use the full mid-level exception to pursue the best available center -- OR a center + Damien Wilkins... My preference would be to get the best center you can for the full $5 mil and just resign Flip to backup Ray -- Flip won't count against the $5 mil exception and as long as he's not handling the ball, I'm fine with giving him another chance.

Sonic EJ said...

$5 Million to the best "post" player you can get. Just do it!

I think the Brunson signing is nice.

The greatest thing about this deal is Brunson is free.

Now can we please trade Vlade "I just want to start" Radman for Antoine Walker or Al Harrington.

Diezel said...

Like I have been saying all summer the Soncis are on the cheap. First they let Nate go AD then JJ. Like I have beeen saying at the beggining of the FA singing period the Sonics and the Cavs had the same amount of cap space. Danny Ferry and the Cavs go out and Sign Big Z like we signed Ray.... But then they sign Larry Hughes Donyell Marshall and are still looking to either sign Earl Watson or Damon Jones and all we do is sign Ric Brunson a 32 year old Journeyman. We as fans can't put up with this Clevland is spending and we are on the cheap. I guess all you fans that have been supportive of this front office must be content with going to the second round and losing every year. I seriously doubt NBA insiders are thinking to themselves Damn, that Ric Brunson signing is the missing piece to put the Sonics over the top and take them to a championship. YEAH RIGHT>

Diezel said...

They could of had Duhon for just as cheap as Brunson Duhon was offered a 3/6 from the Bulls and Keyon Dooling got 3/10. Plus the guy is 32 older than AD.

Anonymous said...

brunson turned 33 last month. but i'm ok with him for a year.

AK1984 said...

The Sonics signing of Rick Brunson, 33, is a good deal. As it is, Brunson (5.5 ppg, 5.1 apg, 1.03 spg, & 3.28 apt ratio) brings a lot to the table as a solid ball-handling defensive-minded point guard who can put in 16 minutes per game backing up Luke Ridnour.

In other news, in regards to the MLE: The Sonics are under the salary cap, which thereby means they don't have the MLE.

At any rate, resigning Ronald Murray is still a BAD idea! While I'm not sure who is willing to sign with the Sonics, I do know that a guy like Jon Barry (6.6 ppg, 2.4 apg, 43.8% 3pfg%, & +8.22 eff.) would better complement the Sonics reserves at backup shooting guard than Ronald Murray (+4.88 eff.) can.

Here is a link that provides information regarding the NBA Collective Bargaining Agreement: http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2120167

Lastly, this is somewhat off-topic, but it is known that due to the lease that the Sonics have with the City of Seattle concerning Key Arena, Howard Schultz has made it apparent that he wants to cut back on salary. In any event, the minimum salary that an organization is allowed to have is $37,125,000.

Anyhow, other than Ray Allen and Rashard Lewis, there is no need to have anyone on the squad who is paid an inordinate amount of money -- unless there is a sign-&-trade deal involving Vladimir Radmanovic and a post-player from another team, for that would justify increased spending -- since the Sonics can pick up cheap, serviceable players via free-agency.

In addition, the Sonics management should consider trying to move power forward Danny Fortson (2005-2006: $6,415,584 & 2006-2007: $6,909,901), since he is vastly overpaid. Anyhow, prior to point guard Damon Stoudamire signing with Memphis (4 years, $17 million), the Houston Rockets had tried to set up a sign-&-trade with the Portland Trailblazers that would've sent Stoudamire to Houston and either power forward Juwan Howard or power forward Clarence Weatherspoon back to Portland.

Anyways, at this moment in time, the Trailblazers are still in need of a power forward who can backup the oft-troubled Zach Randolph; thus, the Sonics should inquire as to whether or not they'd be interested in Fortson. For what it's worth, the Trailblazers still have point guard Nick Van Exel and his non-guarenteed contract ($12,731,150) on their roster; thus, the Sonics -- who are under the salary cap. which thereby exempts them from the trade rules (125% & +/- $100,000) -- could send Fortson to Portland for Van Exel; the Sonics would also receive a trade-exception worth $6,315,566 in the deal. Immediately after acquiring Van Exel, the Sonics could subsequently refuse his team-option and waive him, which would thereby clear a large sum of salary off of management's books.

Sonic EJ said...

I hear you diezel!

This Sonics managment is cheap!

Sell the F#%&^%G team Schultzy!

If Howard is really a fan of the sonics then he should sell the team to someone who will spend the kind of money it takes to win a championship.

Bill Gates used to be a season ticket holder.

kel said...

ak1984 -- If the Sonics resign Vlade to a long-term deal as they are hoping to do, they will then be over the cap and have the MLE, correct?

Anonymous said...

last year was career high for brunson on minutes, shots per game, threes made, points, assists, rebounds.

one stat that was not good for brunson is that he only shoots 40% inside. on that part, he doesnt give what antonio daniels did, who shot an incredible 63% on iside shots according to 82games.com.

Diezel said...

Jamal Crawford is on the trading block I know that Locke hates on him for some reason but he did score 50 points in a game and as bad as a pr hit the Sonics have taken this summer it would be huge to bring back the local 206 boy, and if anyone thinks Luke Ridnour is a better player than Jamal u need to be checked for drugs in your system. I think a backcourt of Jamal and Ray would be downright Explosive.

Anonymous said...

One thing to keep in mind is that we're talking about 12 minutes available at PG backing up Luke in a 4-guard rotation. Earl Watson wants to start. Marko Jaric wants to start. You aren't going to sign a good point guard who is willing to only play 12 minutes per game (and it would be crazy to pay him anything more than they are paying Brunson). You need someone who will come in, get the ball to our scorers, hit the open 3 when it is available and not make mistakes. Feels like they made a smart move here.

Philthy said...

Well, Brunson was on my list of guys I thought the Sonics should sign. My other picks might not have been realistic, but I'm glad they got Brunson. He put up some good numbers last year when he got the chance to play.

Another thing to note. Everyone's panicking that the Sonics are losing all these players without filling certain holes, like attaining a dominant center. What about Phoenix? They're also losing some key pieces. Losing Joe Johnson hurts and it looks like he'll end up in Atlanta.

Philthy said...

As for the Sonics' management being cheap...

Who should they have forked money over for? They re-signed Ray Allen for 17 million! Matching the offers of Jerome James and Antonio Daniels for as much as they got would have been stupid.

The Sonics aren't stupid. They've played smart this offseason.

Brunson is better than you think. He's a bargain, too!

kel said...

I agree with philthy nad the previous anonymous comment -- with Luke's increased minutes, we can't atract an AD-caliber player, nor do we need one at that back-up postion. We need to spend our money elsewhere and I'm not going to label the Sonics "cheap" over this signing -- I may change my tune in another couple of weeks, but I'm still willing to give them the benefit of the doubt as I have yet to see any mistakes this off-season. Diezel, I'm surprised you're still bringing up AD and JJ -- don't we all agree that matching those mega contracts would have been mistakes that could have crippled the franchise?

Lance Uppercut said...

The Blazers would never take Fortson, even if Nate pulled for him. Nate's talked a lot about Patterson playing the 4 while Randolph rests, as well as having Ratlif play the PF, so don't expect them to be eager to take on a Fortson like contract for a back-up. The Sonics could do a lot worse than Brunson.

J_Sor said...

Diezel my man you are sadly misguided. 1st off Duhon is exactly what Brunson is, 3in. shorter and you want to sign him for how much more? C'mon man get real. I would also say that Brunson is a better defender and a better ballhandler.

As far as the Sonics being on the cheap. That's not their fault. Blame the city for not giving them a better lease.

Let me ask you something Diezel. If everyday you are losing $100 out of your wallet and you need to buy a car, are you going to buy a Lexus knowing that you cannot afford it or are you going to buy a ride that gets you from A to B is effecient and gets the job done. C'mon think about it man.

JAMAL CRAWFORD! c'mon what's his shooting percentage? What's his assist to turnover ration. HOW WAS HE W/STEPHON MARBURY? There's a reason why Chicage picked Kirk Heinrich over MR 206. Are you going to tell me he's going to make the team better when he plays no D and is a ballhog? You need to get your head checked? And by the way....once Crawford left, didn't the baby bulls make the playoffs? Where did the knicks end up? Enough said about that issue.

Sonic EJ said...

philthy, so it's ok that the sonics have not signed anyone because phoenix lost joe johnson and got 2 first round picks?

If my team traded Q for Kurt Thomas I would be happy as hell!

My problem is the sonics are not getting better. All I want is for my team to win the title or get closer to winning the title every year untill they do.

Anonymous said...

Brunson has the fourth-best Pure Point Rating (7.6) - a modified A/T ratio for point guards - in the league, behind only Steve Nash (12.8), Brevin Knight (12.7) and Jason Kidd (8.1). Better than Daniels (6.3), better than Ridnour (6.7), WAY better than Earl Watson (4.0). He just doesn't shoot the ball much, which is probably a good thing. We have plenty of firepower on this team so we don't need a scoring backup guard - just need someone who can get the ball to the shooters when they're open.

This is Moneyball in action here - inexpensive performance. Spend the big money on your core and get good value on the guys you surround them with.

Sonic EJ said...

Moneyball is great.

I really like out-smarting other teams.

When was the last time Billy Bean's team won a championship?

When was the last time the Sonics won a championship?

Anonymous said...

Interesting that Oakland beats the **** out of the Mariners year in and year out with about half the payroll.

I would argue they could win a world series with a merely average payroll.

Moneyball techniques brought us Antonio Daniels and Danny Fortson. I would say those were some pretty key pieces to our success last year. There are more like them out there currently being undervalued.

Obviously spending money doesn't win championships as the teams with the highest payrolls inevitably have some of the worst records in the league.

I think Brunson will turn out to be a great pickup.

J_Sor said...

How many big $$$ signings have brought their teams to the championships? T-Mac don't think so, Steve Nash didn't, Look at the Dallas Mavericks how many dollars have they spent? The New York Knicks nope. Shaq didn't win anything until Kobe matured. Right now it's all about team ball. San Antonio their top 3 guys are players they drafted. The Piston's who thought that Ben Wallace, Chauncey Billups and Rip Hamilton were superstar individual players? Tayshaun Prince is what got them over the hump and he was drafted. The Phoenix Suns, Amare and Marion were drafted. Miami Heat, Dwyane Wade was drafted and Udonis Haslem was an undrafted Free Agent. You cannot tell me that spending money wins championships in the NBA it does not happen.

Sonic EJ said...

Dear J_sor,



Great.

Are you telling me that we have to win with the guys Rick Sund is drafting?

Money ball is a good way to win alot of games in the regular season and if your really lucky, (though it has never happend) I think you may be able to win a title.

However, Ray Allen is not getting any younger and the sonics have not been as good as they were last year in a long time.

I think the sonics have a 2 year window to win a title before they no longer have a legitimate superstar in his prime.

How are the sonics going to win in 3 years when they have a aging 2-guard making close to 20 mil/year.


Now is the time to be aggressive!


Sign FAs, make trades, go sign the best coaching staff money can buy!

One more Sonics championship could keep the sonics fans happy for another 25 years.

J_Sor said...

You do not sign FA's to change the face of your team, you sign FA's to fill a specific role. We have our two horses. Luke, Nick and Vlady are what you hope will fill in as a third option from one night to the other and everybody else fills a role on the team. You need people who will accept a role and play it to their best abilities. (Robert Horry, Bruce Bowen, Lindsey Hunter, Tayshaun Prince, Nazr Mohammed, Antonio McDyess) They all play a significant ROLE on both the Spurs and Pisttons to get them to the Championship.

JohnS said...

I would argue that in 2 years, the Sonics will have the best PG/SG/SF/PF lineup in the league (who knows what is going to happen with the center position).

Ridnour is going to break through in a major way next year, as is Nick Collison. If Allen loses a step or needs to play reduced minutes - he won't have to pick up nearly the slack he did this past year on the offensive end. In two years, Luke will be 26, Nick will be 27 and Rashard will be 28. These guys will be lighting it up. This leads me to the point that the Sonics not only have to worry about signings for this year, but also have to plan to keep those other three around when their contracts come up. You're telling me other teams won't throw money at Luke if he turns into a Steve Nash-type player? What about when Rashard's contract comes back up? What about if Collison turns into a 20-10 kind of guy? He's already a 12-10 guy at a 36-minute pace as a rookie and we don't even run any offensive plays for him.

The bottom line is you need to keep those four guys together. We can win a championship around those guys and some key role players. Focus on that core and be smart with your money on the rest of the team.

Anonymous said...

If the Sonics make smart choices with their FA, then I wouldn't call them cheap. Look at Dallas, they're spending like crazy but has it brought them a championship? Spending a lot of money doesn't guarantee you anything? It still comes down to chemistry.

Philthy said...

This is in response to Diezel's comment a while back.

Diezel. I love watching Jamal Crawford. I loved watching and playing against him in high school. But as far as an NBA point guard, he really isn't. He's a high volume shooter and that just really won't fit in the Sonic's lineup.

Ridnour's a future all star, and you're missing the boat if you don't see that.

Just wait. Ridnour's the real deal. Think John Stockton/Steve Nash type player.

Philthy said...

Oh yeah...and regarding the comment about Jamal Crawford scoring 50 points in a game...

Rashard Lewis did that, too.

Oh, and over the years, so did guys like Willie Burton and Anthony Goldwire in their day.

I love Crawford. He's a very good player, but let's use real stats that tell us stuff, and not that irrelevant one-game crap. Jay Williams of the bulls had a triple double against Jason Kidd, but that doesn't tell the true tale of his disappointing rookie season.

Locked on Sports said...

Let's stop Diezel's myth
They did not have the same cap room as the Cavs. The only way they had the same cap room was to renounce the rights to Allen, Vlady and all of their other free agents. Once they signed Ray they were at about 10 million and that is only if they renounce the rights to every other free agent.

Lance Uppercut said...

I almost spit milk through my nose when I read sonic70's comment. The Sonics will not have the best PG/SG/SF/PF tandem in two years. Duncan, Manu, Bowen, and Parker? Kidd, Carter, Jefferson, Rahim? Billups, Hamilton, Prince, Wallace/Wallace? Even with PHX losing Johnson, I'd take a line-up of Nash, Marion, Amare and any SG in the league over what the Sonics have, even in two years. Don't get me wrong, the Sonics have good young talent, but so do a lot of other teams.

Sonic EJ said...

All this ra ra Rick Sund crap is making me sick!

The sonics need to save money to keep Luke and Nick?

They can go over the cap to keep whoever they want.

But will they?

Maybe we do need to save money.

I guess I'm not surprised the average sonic fan has accepted the cheapness of this ownership.

It is so rare in the NBA for a team to have the right combination of young cheap talent + a superstar and enough cap room to make a big move.


Make a big move Sonics (at least a top 6 player minutes wise), then fill in with moneyball players.

Philthy said...

sonics ej,

"now's the time to be aggressive!"

What do you propose the Sonics do? There isn't much out there this offseason, because the last few offseasons were when the free agent frenzy occurred.

Moreover, the Sonics got the best coach available for their needs. Had they overpaid a coach that didn't deserve it, then what money would they have to spend on retaining free agents like Ray Allen? What hopes would they have at filling out their roster?

The biggest thing the Sonics have going for them is their depth, and though we've lost some of it, Rick Brunson is a lot better than people give him credit for and will fit in nicely.

The best free agents on the market were Ray Allen and Michael Redd. The Sonics got Ray Allen...the best free agent on the market. That makes them pretty aggressive.

J_SOR said...

As far as Rick Sund is concerned, what has he done to make you not have faith in him? He traded G-ME (the glove) and Dez for Allen, Murray and Ridnour. Pretty good trade i would think. Drafted Collison (Allen Iverson predicted he was going to be rookie of the year before Collison got hurt. Check the records) He signed AD. Traded Calvin Booth for Fortson. What has he done to make you question him?

Sonic EJ said...

Locke,

If the sonics droped everyone except Allen they would still have their almighty "core" group of guys.

Spend 8 mil on a big and you have 2 mil for 2 more moneyball guys.

After that fill in with summer league guys. We have like two or three every year that could make the team.

J_Sor said...

Sonic EJ you have 4/5 of your starting lineup set. You have your 6th man / scorer off the bench in Vlade. You got your bruiser off the bench in Fortson. You have your backup point in Brunson. I'm not sold on Murray but we'll see about that. Swift can give you what James did in 16 minutes that James played. You need a center and I think a shooter off the bench (Tre Simmons). Not too many teams around the NBA can say they have 6 of your 8 man rotation set

J_Sor said...

Sonic EJ - 8 mil on a big brings you KWAME BROWN!

infinite said...

jamal crawford is great and all, but i agree with this dude. he just doesnt play enough defense or pass the ball enough to fit in our system. Brunson wasn't near the top of my list either but i think he's costeffective. he'd do fine with 15 minutes agame for us.

sonic ej needs to sharpen up on his knowledge of the game. let me be the one to re-educate you.

" philthy, so it's ok that the sonics have not signed anyone because phoenix lost joe johnson and got 2 first round picks?

If my team traded Q for Kurt Thomas I would be happy as hell!

My problem is the sonics are not getting better. All I want is for my team to win the title or get closer to winning the title every year untill they do."


i wouldn't be so excited giving up Q AND nate robinson for a 31 year old undersized center. sure kurt thomas provides them toughness but he's aging and might not fit their run and gun.

joe johnson was like their radmanovic, his ability to be the 4th capable shooter on the court allowed their team to spread the floor and allowed the team to run the nash to amare pick and roll so efficiently. I think that Philthy was just comparing the two teams. and about those draft picks, they are lottery protected, meaning they will probably be not in the top 13.

The sonics are getting better by subtraction. they get rid of an inconsistant 7 footer and they let go of an aging backup pg that wanted money. this allows the team more flexibility in their cap to satisfy radmanovic and potentially lure some other costeffective players to plug into their core.

her's another quote from sonic ej:

"Now can we please trade Vlade "I just want to start" Radman for Antoine Walker or Al Harrington."

please, those two players you just mentioned would not fit our team. walker for obvious reasons. Al harrington will also want to start. which is something you seem to not want. Al Harrington just doesn't seem like he's worth trading a potentially potent european player that causes ruckus for other team's defense. i bet you didn't even read Mr. Locke's post about how important Radmanovic is to our team. if he's that important to the players on our roster you'd think the team would try to retain him.

another one from sonic ej:

"Are you telling me that we have to win with the guys Rick Sund is drafting?"

are you saying that vlad, luke and nick are bad draft picks? hmmm... the only year we didnt do so well was 2002 when we didn't have a 1st rounder. the verdict is still up on our two 19year old 7 footers but if the develop into anything like what they potentially can be... just watch out. oh did i mention that numerous 2nd rounders that we traded away are also nba quality players? (watson, simmons, willie green) hmmm...

one more for the road:

"I think the sonics have a 2 year window to win a title before they no longer have a legitimate superstar in his prime."

actually their window is a tad bit longer than that. you see if nick and luke can develop into all star quality players, you won't need to have a super star, because you you'd have 3 all stars in luke, nick and rashard PLUS Ray in his early 30s. oh did i mention that we might already have that superstar in the wainting on our team? he's just been restricted by coming off the bench and being under the strict control of our old coach. he has the abilities to become a superstar if the front office and coachingstaff allow him to be. i think that radmanovic has star written all over him and if he was on a different team not behind ray allen and rashard then we would have another euro star. oh and also IF those two 19 year old 7 footers pant out, or even just one of them... i think our window is more like a sliding doors big.

thats all i have on sonic ej, i'm pretty sure i can find more stuff that i can argue about.

I think the sonics had a poor man's 90's chicago bulls roster

pg: luke = bj armstrong
sg: allen = mj(well about half)
sf: lewis = pippen (minus defense)
rebounder: evans = rodman
6th man gunner: Radmanovic = kukoc
stiff@center: jjames = luc longly
combo gaurd: daniels = harper

the difference was that MJ was just that damn good and pippen provided defense at the 3 position constantly.

Locked on Sports said...

Other reactions --

If they had signed Duhon they would have had to use their mid-level space.

The Sonics are not under the cap unless they release all of their players.

Jamal is a totally one dimensional player who can score and nothing else. He makes no one around him better, and he gets beat for every point he scores.

those of you who understand they can only get a back-up are onto the real issue. Teh Jazz used to change back-ups to Stockton every year. One year John Crotty then next Howard Eisley. No different then what the Sonics did with Payton.

You are exactly right that this is moneyball.

Sonic EJ said...

j_sor,

How about pick to 7 foot teenagers back to back years when we could have had someone who could help us.

I must admit there was not alot to choose from in 2004 (Although I was pissed we didn't grab Al Jefferson).

2005, are you kidding me? How about Wayne Simion, David Lee or Jawad Williams. Come on Rick.

Based on the FAs Sund has signed and the trades he has made I have to give the guy credit.

Imagine what he could do if he was alowed to think about (dare I say it?) going over the cap?

JohnS said...

Lance,

Got a good laugh from your comparisons (except for the Spurs). The Nets? C'mon man...let's be realistic here. Let's see...Kidd at 34, Carter at 31, Rahim at 31 and Jefferson at 27. I wouldn't even put that lineup in the top 5, assuming they keep all those guys - Carter is up in 2006-2007 and Kidd is up in 2007-2008.

The Pistons are going to have two guys out of that lineup aged 33 and one aged 31. They ain't winning 50+ games with three guys over 30. By the way, Ben W. comes up next year on his contract and Billups comes up the year after that. They are likely to want to cash in on their championship runs for their last career contracts.

The Spurs will still be tough except Bowen is done at age 36 - sorry. Duncan is going to be 31 and Manu 30. Parker is the only young one of the group at age 23. The benefit here is that they are all locked up for awhile now.

I'm not hearing any compelling arguments here - Sonics still look like the best 4 to me in two years.

Anonymous said...

Yes, why did we pick two stiffs in the first round when we could have used it for NBA ready rookies.

Again the Sonics failed to address their need for a backup point guard knowing full well they weren't going to match A. D. They could have traded up to pick a guard like Nate Robinson who would have surprised a lot of people who doubted him. Yes, I was the one who kept telling the Sonics they should have drafted Nate. They will be sorry that they didn't or try to.

Anonymous said...

How many times do the Sonics have to try and draft a 7 footer knowing that there aren't that many dominant 7 footers in the league. Last time I checked Hakeem, Patrick, Moses, are no longer playing. The only real big threats out there are Shaq and Duncan. The Sonics need to find a banging and inside the key presence. Are they even going to bury the hatchet and give Kemp a look? If he were truly in shape he would bring more to the table than some of those stiffs.

Sonic EJ said...

I guess everything is great with the Sonics.

We don't need to do anything as Sonic fans but sit back and enjoy the ride. A championship is not far away.

I hope Rick, Wally and Howard know what their doing.

Maybe it's just the jaded Seattle sports fan in me talking, but when I smell a title like I did last year I want to get one before the chance is gone.

Locked on Sports said...

Let's stop Diezel's myth
They did not have the same cap room as the Cavs. The only way they had the same cap room was to renounce the rights to Allen, Vlady and all of their other free agents. Once they signed Ray they were at about 10 million and that is only if they renounce the rights to every other free agent.

Anonymous said...

Rick Brunson good ballhandler, but a liablity in scoring. Do they (Sonics) think teams will even put a man on him? We needed a guard who could create and score not someone who can't draw defenders to guard him. That's what A.D. did and the Sonics are going to suffer because of it.

JohnS said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Sonic EJ said...

What happens IF Luke get hurt this year?

JohnS said...

Nate isn't going to want to play 13 a game for the next five years behind Ridnour. We need a guy who is completely fine with those minutes - sometimes hard to do in this league. Plus he turns the ball over alot right now...not something we can afford.

Swift is going to surprise people this season. Summer league is a guard's league - they threw the ball to him in decent post position about 10 times over six games. He blocked shots, played excellent on-ball and off-ball defense and rebounded. The refs were calling stuff that they never would have during the season - with refs like that Fortson wouldn't last 2 minutes. I think Swift is going to be pretty solid next year. He can't give us starter minutes, that's for sure.

AK1984 said...

The only negative marks on Rick Sund, Rich Cho, and David Pendergraft's resume so far during their tenure with the Sonics include the signing of Calvin Booth (6 years, $34,042,500), the drafting of Robert Swift over Al Jefferson, the drafting of Johan Petro (a.k.a., Jerome James, Jr.) over more proven, experienced players (e.g., Wayne Simien & Chris Taft), and the drafting foreign players who have little upside and don't come over to Seattle (i.e., Peter Fehse, Paccelis Morlende, & Mickael Gelabale).

Of course, with that noted, the Sonics are in position to make another bad move, with that being the purportedly imminent re-signing of Vladimir Radmanovic to a long-term deal. As it is, the Sonics need to either set-up a sign-&-trade deal wherein the acquire a legitimate center in return (e.g., Jamaal Magloire), or else they ought to sign him to the one-year tender, which is worth $3,166,155. Yet, even though the one-year tender is cost-efficient and practical, the problems with it include the fact that he'll most likely be unhappy with his role on the team, and he'll probably leave Seattle as an unrestricted free-agent at the end of the 2005-2006 season.

Another poor move that the Sonics might soon make regards the situation concerning Ronald Murray. At the price of $695,046, which is what Murray earned last year, he's an okay guy to have at the end of the bench; however, if the Sonics give him a deal similar to that of Juan Dixion (3 years, $8 million), then they've shot themselves in the foot. Murray is an undersized, defensively inept, passing deficient shooting guard who can easily be replaced.

Lastly, in regards to Danny Fortson and the Portland Trailblazers: Theo Ratliff is not going to see time at the four, since he'll log in whatever minutes he'll get backing up Joel Przybilla at the five; in addition, Ruben Patterson and Travis Outlaw are way too undersized -- as Patterson is too short (6'5") and Outlaw is too thin (210lbs.) -- to be effective at the four. As it was, the Trailblazers tried to use Stoudamire as a bargaining chip in acquiring help at the power forward spot from Houston, but were unable to get either Juwan Howard or Clarence Weatherspoon once Stoudamire outright signed with Memphis; thus, the 'blazers may, perhaps, use the Nick Van Exel -- who has a non-guaranteed salary of $12,731,125 for next season, and is going to be waived sometime during the next month by whatever team he's with -- as a pawn in getting post help, with Fortson being a guy that they could consider bringing down to Portland.

Anonymous said...

We're in serious trouble if we think Murray or Brunson can run the floor.

Anonymous said...

Nate wouldn't start many games but he can come in and play right away. The man plays bigger than his height and people keep doubting him . sonics70 do you really trust the guys we have backing up Luke. ( Luke had trouble keeping up with Parker and other quicker points during the season).

Anonymous said...

Thank god (black) is not blogging tonight!!!!!!!

AK1984 said...

In addition, the Sonics are UNDER the salary cap, which is set at $49.5 million, as they've only got approximately $35 million dollars allotted to signed players (i.e., Ray Allen, Rashard Lewis, Danny Fortson, Nick Collison, Luke Ridnour, Rick Brunson, & Johan Petro) and tendered players (i.e., Vladimir Radmanovic, Reggie Evans, Ronald Murray, & Damien Wilkins). Now, with that said, if they soon sign Radmanovic, Evans, Murray, and Wilkins, then that'll skyrocket the team's salary to around roughly $49.5 million, which will put the organization at the cap and force them to use their MLE -- which they'd receive upon reaching $49.5 million -- if they were to make anyomre free-agent signings.

JohnS said...

How many teams can afford to lose a starting player? Backups are supposed to be just that...guys who can come in and keep things going until the starter can return. Few backups in the league are capable of replacing the starter - if you lose a starter it is a huge setback to the team, bottom line. Brunson ran the point as a starter in LA almost all of last season and did a passable job at it - seems like he could survive if Luke went down. It would hurt but we would get by.

I know Luke had trouble against Parker defensively but also scored 20 against him in game 4. I would argue that Ridnour is as good of a defender as Nash, the MVP last year. Luke is an offensive PG (like Nash), no question about it. His goal in his career should be to become an average defender - his offensive skills will outweigh his defensive liabilities in the long run.

Luke will jump to a new level next year because 1) he will ramp up his FG% to an acceptable level as his confidence increases and 2) he will drive more to the rack and get fouled (shoots 90% from the line) and 3) in an up-tempo game will dish out more assists.

Jack W said...

I like the signing if RB can do what he did last year. He's better than Flip and Cleaves, but not as good offensively as AD. If the Sonics can retain Wilkins then it makes even more sense. This would bring a better balance to the team.
However, RB played nearly half of his total career minutes, of eight years, just last year. Was it a fluke year?

I would disagree with those that say the Sonics are cheap. But, they don't show the willingness to sign or trade for an impact player to take it to the next level. The Sonics, Cavs, Bucks, and Rockets signed FA impact players. But the biggest difference is that the Cavs, Bucks, and Rockets improved their teams.

The Lakers signed Shaq as a FA which lead to championships.

The Pistons made a great trade to bring in Wallace which lead to a chamionship.

The Spurs and Rockets built their organization around two number one draft picks.

Championship teams these days don't grow out of draft picks. Often many trades take place to build a team. The Sonics need one more impact/core player to contend. Where is he going to come from?

Collison, Ridnour, and Wilkins have potential to be good players. But they haven't proven themselves, yet.

If the Sonics are building a championship contending team around Allen and Lewis, then now is the time to take the next move. If they wait they could easily turn into the Mariners.

Anonymous said...

Can't argue about Luke. He does need to drive more often to create the double team so that he can kick it out to the shooters though. He also has to bury his outside shots more often because most guys guarding him were daring him to shoot the outside so that they could cheat a little on helping with a double team. I just wished the Sonics were concentrating on building a strong bench.

Sonic EJ said...

Wow, LOL.

Sorry dude but you really like Luke alot.

I wonder if this stuff happens in Portland with Telfair?

Sonic EJ said...

jack w,

Thanks,

i can sleep well knowing a sonics fan gets it.

JohnS said...

Sonic EJ,

You were probably one of those guys yelling for Sund's head after last year's quiet FA season. Still yelling...

If you don't like the team we have, how about some suggestions on how to improve? I'm talking names and numbers here, not just "sign some good free agents".

Philthy said...

I think people are seriously over-estimating the free agent and trading market this offseason. It's not like last season or the season before. I don't think Joe Johnson would get the kind of money last year with the numbers he had this year. It's how the business works. The Sonics would hurt themselves if they started signing every top-notched free agent that came up.

Locke's right about Jerome James. He doesn't make anyone around him better. And, remember that he came to training camp out of shape and got chewed out by Nate. He only really had one good series against a team whose center was hurt. Other than that, he was a few years of headaches.

As far as why the Sonics draft who they do...that's a tough one. We don't see what they see during workouts. The jury's still out about Swift. All I know is that a lot of teams really wanted him. Same with Petro. The thing that scares me about Petro, however, is that the knock on him is that he supposedly has a poor work ethic. That makes me think Jerome James, Benoit Benjamin, and all the other oversized, lazy stiffs in the league.

Hopefully he proves otherwise.

People also underestimate Luke Ridnour's abilities. I wonder how many of his critics watch that many Sonics games.

Anonymous said...

Although Brunson isn't known for his scoring, I like that fact that he is 6'4" and was at Temple when Demopolous coached there so he understands some of the responsiblities of the Sonics defensive schemes. I hope that he will be able to take pressure off Luke when he has to guard the bigger guards.

Myk said...

Too many posts to look and see if this has already been said but the Cleveland comparisons are just down right stupid.

They might have had equal money but we had to sign Ray for 17 million per year. Ilgauskus got like 11. So that is a 6 MILLION dollar difference. Take that difference and add it to the money you are going to pay Vlad and you get your Larry Hughes and Donyell Marshall. Cleveland drastically overpaid for Hughes and will regret that in the future. Finally, I think more people want to go play with Lebron than up here in Seattle.

It is getting really old and frustrating hearnig some of you guys claim that the Sonics are cheap but then can't give a reasonable explanation on what they should have done. This isn't baseball where everyone can spend as much money as they want. The Sonics are under the constraints of the salary cap and have speant most of it on Ray and Rashard...DEAL WITH IT

Anonymous said...

Are the Sonics really interested in antoine Walker or Eddy Curry as ESPN reports? Walker is a good back to the basket player but his attitude rubs me the wrong way. Curry is still young and has a good game inside and is a good rebounder.

Myk said...

As for the Sonics drafts...someone please show me another suceessful young team where 6 of their top 8 in the rotation:

Luke
Rashard
Nick
Reggie
Vlade
Swift

Were drafted by the same team. It is actually pretty amazing that the Sonics were able to win a NW Division Championship without ever having a top 10 pick. Most great teams either need a big FA signing (LA with Shaq) or luck in the lotto (SA with Duncan)

Anonymous said...

If Lebron decides to leave Cleveland do the Sonics have a chance at getting him? Ray on the outside and Lebron on the inside would be spectacular. I would even trade Shard and Radman to get him.

Anonymous said...

Hey myk! Isn't Ray Allen like a top 10 pick or big free agent signing even tough the Sonics traded to get him?

Anonymous said...

Lebron would be the rebounder/scorer that Shard and Vlad would never be. Trade them for Lebron when Cleveland starts to realize that Lebron would like to bolt.

Sonic EJ said...

Go Sonics!

Jack W said...

Summer league isn't just for guards!

Dwight Howard: 19 pts/ 7.5 rbs / 1.5 blks in 25 min

Chris Kaman: 20 / 8.5 / 1.5 in 32

May and Diogu played well, too. The problem exists when the big men that are present are offensively inept. They should at least show some rebounding or shot blocking ability. Swift may turn out to be a decent player, but the odds are highly against it.

How can people compare Ridnour to Stockton or any other good to great PG? His FG % actually went down last year from his rookie season. Very, very few PG's rarely improve their FG % more than marginally over their careers. One example would be J.Kidd. Still he's not a very good shooter. But, he's one of the best ever at distribution. In addition, he rebounds well for a guard. Of course, he has other intangibles that set him apart from other PG's. IMHO, the 05-06 season will be the make or break season for Ridnour.

----------

Thanks EJ. It's one thing to have an opinion. But when people start spewing their opinions, false knowledge, and lies as facts, it gets to be frustrating.

Sonic EJ said...

People overestimate Luke Ridnour’s abilities. I wonder how many of his fans watch many non-Sonics NBA games.

AK1984 said...

Hey y'all, I miscalculated the Sonics' team salary in my earlier post, as Seattle actually has approximately $43 million allotted in signed players (i.e., Ray Allen {~$15,000,000}, Rashard Lewis {$8,571,429}, Danny Fortson {$6,415,584}, Nick Collison {$1,815,000}, Robert Swift {$1,764,480}, Luke Ridnour {$1,638,000}, Rick Brunson {~$1,000,000}, & Johan Petro {~$1,000,000}) and tendered players (i.e., Vladimir Radmanovic {$3,166,155}, Reggie Evans {~$1,000,000}, Ronald Murray {~$800,000}, & Damien Wilkins {~$700,000}).

Anyhow, as it is, the Supersonics are still under the salary cap, albeit by only about $6.5 million. In any event, though, Danny Fortson's contract is an albatross; it needs to be rid off.

Finally, as has been previously mentioned, Vladimir Radmanovic is NOT deserving of a six year, $48 million contract -- no matter what he and his agent think!

Anonymous said...

Locke,

Any word as to who Weiss will hire to be his assistants along with Sikma and Rock?

Anonymous said...

ak1984,

I thought Locke was the only basketball nerd on the planet but I guess you are the other.

Philthy said...

How do people overestimate Luke? Why? because he doesn't score 20 ppg and take 30 shots to get it?

He's played for two seasons and was a major reason why the Sonics made the noise they did.

Like it or not, he's the point guard of the future. What? Is it that he's white? I only bring that up because Mark Price and Stockton got flack for that...so did Dan Dickau.

What is it?

Philthy said...

yeah, let me clarify that last entry.

I don't think people are racist. I just said that, because I'm not getting where everyone's coming from about Luke being overrated. It seems to me that if a player doesn't follow a certain player prototype, the flashy, shoot-first, athletic type, then he's not a good ballplayer and has little upside.

It's sad, because that doesn't win games. What Luke does and has the ability to do does win games.

Jack W said...

AK, thanks for the numbers.
---------

Myk-

Are you implying that the Sonics were a great team last year?

"Most great teams either need a big FA signing (LA with Shaq) or luck in the lotto (SA with Duncan)"

Also, I was confused by your other comments.

"As for the Sonics drafts...someone please show me another suceessful young team where 6 of their top 8 in the rotation:"

What do you consider rotation?

-Swift wasn't in the rotation.

-Evans was a FA.

-I would agree that Ridnour, Lewis, and Collison were good picks. But, Collison was actually ninth in minutes played.

-Radmanovic was an okay draft pick, but there were several players passed by that are better.

There were at least a few playoff teams that had at least four players in rotation and that had originated with that team.

If you're saying the Sonics have drafted well over the last few years, then I agree. But, free agency and trades are nearly just as important to win a championship.

It's true that the players orginally selected by the Sonics weren't drafted in the top ten. But if you discount Allen(drafted fifth) and GP(drafted second by the Sonics), then this team wouldn't even be in the playoffs. Point being the Sonics wouldn't be nearly the team they were last year without a top ten, more importantly, a top five draft pick.

JohnS said...

Jack W,

Nash's FG went down almost 10% his third year. He eventually improved his shooting 8% over his career.

Stockton improved 10% over his first four years.

Marbury improved 6%. Kidd improved 6%.

Why don't you let me handle the facts here...you're embarrassing yourself.

As for the summer league, I can guarantee that the players you mentioned were touching the ball more than 4-5 times a game - I know the Bobcats made a point of looking for May every time down the floor. I don't think our guys looked for Swift much at all after the first game. That's more Sikma's fault than Swifty's fault - letting Kaniel Dickens take 12 shots per game is ridiculous.

Also, with the exception of Howard, these guys are all 2-3 years older than Swift at this point and haven't been sitting on the bench for the last 12 months. This is the most playing time the guy's gotten in a long time. And by the way he did rebound and did block shots - you must have missed the games.

Plus we don't need the guy to score...we'll have plenty of offense from our super starting 4 next year.

Lance Uppercut said...

Sonic70, Ray will be a 31 year-old jump-shooter in 2 years. I stand by my statement that all of those teams will be better than the Sonics in 2 years, knowing that they will be somewhat older, but still more effective IMO. Who plays D on a line-up of Luke/Ray/Rashard/Collison? I also think that, as much as I love Luke, that some people are drastically overestimating how mych better he is going to get, same with Collison. Expecting either of those guys to be in the top 5 (or even 10 regarding Collison, lots of great PF out thier) at thier positions is foolish. Time will tell.

Sonic EJ said...

philthy,

The Sonics made noise last year because they went 10 deep off the bench.

I'm not trying to say Luke wont get better or he is a bad player.

How often does a Steve Nash work out?

Please do not offend me as a fellow Sonics fan with John Stockton comparisons.

Maybe up here in Seattle we are a little too close to the situation.

Luke is a nice player with a very special ability to pass the basketball.

I expect him to play in the league for 10+ years and have an all-star appearance.

Just because you watched a sonic game and saw Luke make a no-look pass doesn't mean he is the second comming.

JohnS said...

Lance,

Agreed, time will tell what happens. I feel like both Luke and Nick were good enough in college that they have lots of upside.

You could argue that Nick has more upside than Luke due to his limited role last year - don't forget he average 20-10 in a tough college conference and dropped 33 points and 19 rebounds on Duke in the NCAA tournament his senior year. He is a guy that finds a way to consistently excel (and win) at every level he's played. Definitely interested to see what happens with those two next year.

Diezel said...

For all u Luke lovers come and talk to me in May or June when u really make your money.. Don't give me good performances in November-April show me something when it counts. I expect Dwayne Wade like things out of Luke considering this will be his 3rd year coming up and now that Nate is gone BOb Weiss(or Wally and Ric) the real coaches can showcase this guy like they have been trying to since they drafted him. Like the old saying goes the regular season you make your name in the playoffs you make your fame. I was sort of kidding about the Jamal comment also I guess more of a pipe dream, and all that hate A scorer who plays no defense kinda reminds me of a 2 we have. I love Ray but would like to see his defense improve. And as far as our cap I am just going by what a unbiased publication like the USA Today reported in there paper I think I actually still have the article. It said the Sonics and Cavs both had between 21-26 millon dollars in cap space. I also thought Ray made concessions in his contract that would allow Sonics some cap relief so why don't they use that and make a move like getting Tyson Chandler or Joe Johnson. And for J sor how can u not call them cheap u don't think Howard Shultz either looked at or knew about how bad the lease was if he didn't then he's a worse bussinesman than I give him credit for. And the fact the NBA just signed like a billon dollar contract with the televison rights which I know the Sonics are getting a chunk of. I totally feel that Howards arrogance is whats getting him in trouble I think he just assumed that being a local guy the city was just going to tear up the existing lease, or the people of Seattle where going to build him a new arena. So you have to blame either his stupidity or arrogance one or the other. And one last thing about Jamal Crawford I admit the guy has not won yet, but he still is only 24 years old, played 19 games of college basketball I mean I love Ray as well as everyone but if u remember in Milwaukee George was saying the same things about Ray he plays no defense doesn't make his team better and is a gunner. Hence the trade, alot of people thought at the time the Bucks got the better end of the deal obviously they were wrong. I will admit I thought the same things about Ray when he first came to Seattle but I am not to admit the fact I was dead wrong about Ray, except the Defense has to get better without AD not thay he was a lock up defender but was a upgrade over Luke or Ray. After really looking at Brunson though I think he can be a servicable backup but if theres a injury and he has to start we are done. And who is our bakcup 2 FLIP great... brunson has no O , then if u bring Reggie back off the bench and Petro where is the bench production coming from??? someone please answer that one for me. I am really excited for the season though to see what happens. And the guy who questioned Duhon I also pointed out Keyon Dooling who I wanted more he got 3/10 is also 6-3 or 6-4 can play either guard position and is a lanky player who can get his arms in the passing lanes. Where was the Sonics on that move. I feel they are putting all the hopes on the development of Luke right now, why not bring in another guy who is on the verge of being a starter i.e. Dooling or Duhon that can push Luke through competition and that way make him a better player, alot of guys play better when they have someone looking over there shoulder. If they can't then they don't have the mental fortitude anyway and I don't want him.

Anonymous said...

Dude, you can make paragraphs on this blog.

Diezel said...

one last thing I forgot all the Luke to Nash/Stockton comparisions when was the last time either one of those guys held up the Larry O'Brien trophy???????

Myk said...

Diezel,

Tons of questions on your really long post:

1) So you are complaining that with our 12th pick you are going to get a 10 year starting PG who makes an All-Star appearance or two?

2) Ummmm yeah I would like Luke to play like Dwyane Wade too but then of course Dwyane Wade is a top 5 player in the league so I would like everyone (including Ray..) to play like Dwyane Wade...

3) If Jamal Crawford had played his High School ball in Texas or Florida I am sure you wouldn't want him to come play for the Sonics. He is a shoot first PG....just what we need in our ball movement offense, if we want that why not just let Flip start same skills much less money.

4) With 21-26 million in Cap Space we have speant 17million on Ray and if we want to resign Vlade we need to keep the rest open or another team could sign him to a contract we couldn't match. Plus if we are to make an offer to Tyson Chandler we would have to give up signing Vlade. Then once the Bulls matched the offer we would be stuck with nothing...we could sign Joe Johnson because we really need another SG who makes 10 million a year.

Jack W,

1) Sorry Reggie hasn't been signed yet but it appears that he isn't getting any offers so he will probably be a Sonic next year.

2) Look at the playoff teams from last year and tell me which teams had more home grown talent

3) Yes, Ray was a top 10 pick and look how our supposedly inept front office was able to get 100% of GPs production and trade him at almost the exact time he fell off the face of the Earth for a top 10 talent. On top of that we got a starting PG and some would say a decent SG.

I agree with everyone that we probably will not win a championship without getting a dominant big man. However, there is a reason for that...THERE AREN'T MANY OF THEM OUT THERE and the teams that have them don't give them away. This is why we take chances and draft Swift and Petro..I'm not saying they will turn out to be any good (only about 1 in 50 do) but since our back court is well stocked we can afford to take a chance to get that great player.

JohnS said...

I heard we are one of three teams (along with Cleveland and San Antonio) with an actual offer on the table to SG Marcus Brown of CSKA Moscow who just won the Euroleague championship. He is 6-3 and 185, super quick/athletic, gets about 30% of his points from the line (like AD), plays good defense (like AD) and sounds like he may be willing to sign for around $1M a year for 2-3 years.

He played 4 years at Murray State and put up some pretty good numbers there. He had a run of bad luck with NBA teams but is currently the highest paid player in Europe and would be a heck of a combo backup - great slasher complement to Ray's outside shooting. He says he is willing to take a pay cut to get guaranteed minutes in the NBA. I don't know how our offer stacks up to the other teams but sounds like it would be a great pickup if they can pull it off.

Myk said...

If San Antonio likes a foriegn player than I say snatch him up!

Diezel said...

myk.. I will agree with this fact that at 12 they(Ric) were smart enough to draft Luke and not Reece Gaines. I just really worry about the pg position because we have ZERO defense out of that position and that is key how is Luke going to be able to handle the pg's in the West. I also feel your just assuming that Luke is going to be a great pg and a All star.


Locke... what do u know about this Marcus Brown guy that the Sonics are looking at I know he has played overseas the last few seasons other than that don't know much, anybody got any info on this guy? When are we going to find out who this mystery team is that offered Damien more than 16 millon??? are we going to wait until the deadline then match or just let him go. I know a cheap replacement could be Devin Brown or Maurice Evans. But it looks to me the Sonics are content on FLIP.

Jack W said...

Okay Sonics70, lets talk about some facts and REVIEW what I wrote.

"How can people compare Ridnour to Stockton or any other good to great PG? His FG % actually went down last year from his rookie season. Very, very few PG's rarely improve their FG % more than marginally over their careers. One example would be J.Kidd. Still he's not a very good shooter."

- Compare LR to JS?
- FG % went down?
- Very,very few PG's rarely improve their FG%?
- E.G. J.Kidd?

Statistically Ridnour doesn't compare to Stockton.

Ridnour's field goal percentage decreased from year one to year two.

Do you know how many point guards come into the league each year? About how many new point guards start each year? I don't know the answer, but it's a lot. Especially when you take in account over a period of ten years. In short, I said very few PG's improve their FG % more than marginally. The good ones typically improve, while the others fade away. Percentage wise very, very few PG's improve their FG % more than marginally over their careers. I DIDN'T say nor imply some of the best PG's in NBA history never improve their FG %.

One example of a good point guard, that DIDN'T improve his FG % more than marginally over his career is J.Kidd. His first two years he shot 38.5 % and 38.1 %. Throughout his career he has shot 40.2 %. A 1.7 % point improvement is what I would call a marginal increase. While, I like the play of J.Kidd, he's still not a good shooter.

Lets talk about more facts regarding:
S.Nash, S.Marbury, J.Stockton, J.Kidd, and L.Ridnour in their first two years and career totals.

SN- FG%:42.3 / 10.5 min / 2.7 FGA
- FG%:45.9 / 21.9 min / 7.7 FGA
- FG%:47 / 29 min / 10 FGA

SM- FG%:40.8 / 35 min / 13 FGA
- FG%:41.5 / 38 min / 15 FGA
- FG%:43.5 / 39 min / 17 FGA

JS- FG%:47.1 / 18 min / 4 FGA
- FG%:48.9 / 24 min / 6 FGA
- FG%:51.5 / 32 min / 9 FGA

JK- FG%:38.5 / 34 min / 11 FGA
- FG%:38.1 / 38 min / 16 FGA
- FG%:40.2 / 38 min / 13 FGA

LR- FG%:41.4 / 16 min / 5 FGA
- FG%:40.5 / 31 min / 9 FGA
- FG%:40.8 / 24 min / 7 FGA

SN had an increase of 5.3 % points from his first year to his career total. SM had an increase of 2.7 % points from his first year to his career total. JS had an increase of 4.4 % points from his first year to his career total. JK had an increase of 1.7 percentage points from his first year to his career total.

Nash and Stockton are/were good shooters. At least by the time they reached their second year, you could tell they could shoot the ball. Marbury is okay, but not good. Kidd is still not good.

It's not exactly fair to compare Ridnour's numbers to the other players because he's only had two years of data. Nevertheless, it's highly improbable that Ridnour increases his % to anywhere near a Stockton or Nash.

I'm not embarrassed, nor should I be. If anyone should be embarrassed it might be you. If you're going to present facts, please don't skew them to your lame arguement. In addition, if you're going to take the time to rip my post, try actually reading it first.

---------------------

"Summer league isn't just for guards!"

Again, that was my premise because many people write/say that it's a guard league or dominated by guards. Then I backed it up with fair examples.

"The problem exists when the big men that are present are offensively inept. They should at least show some rebounding or shot blocking ability. Swift may turn out to be a decent player, but the odds are highly against it."

I didn't comment on how Swift performed. He's only been in a handful of games in the NBA. He's only played in dozen or so exhibition games. My GUESS is that he'll be somewhere between D.Mutumbo and C.Booth as a player. What I would like to see is a center that can play post defense, rebound, and block shots for 30 minutes a night. Will Swift be able to do that?

Furthermore, I hope Collison can be a decent threat on the post. The Sonics need an effective/low post threat if they want to win the championship.

I like Allen, Lewis, Ridnour, and Collison. But his team needs one more impact/core player. Could Ridnour, Collison, Radmanovic, or Wilkins be him? Maybe, but probably not. This teams needs more defense. IMHO, the two biggest components this team is missing are defense and easy shot attempts. They need to be effective in executing both to win the championship.

Myk said...

Diezel,
Im not one who believes that Luke will be a great PG, he still needs to be more consistent with his jumper to be great. One thing you are forgetting though is how once these little white PGs get a reputation for being good they get away with a lot more holding and grabbing. Stockton would have never been a great D player if he wasn't allowed to leach on to his player. Nash does the same thing.

Im more suprised at your desire for Jamal Crawford..him and Ray just wouldn't be a good back court..not enough shots

Biggie said...
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Biggie said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Myk said...

Jack W,

1) You are taking your stats and looking at them only so they will help your argument. Anyone else notice that Luke's Mins doubled to 31 mins, Nash was still only playing 21 mins a game after year two and wasn't even a starter until much later in their career.

2) Why is FG% the defining characteristic of a PG. I would look at Luke's great Assist/TO ratio as a sign that he is going to be better than average. Gary Payton's FG% stayed the same betwen his first and second year, does that mean he wasn't going to be good?

3) Like the other poster said, don't you have to take into account that Nash's numbers dropped to: .363 his third year (and that was the first year he became a full time starter..)

4) You are right the Sonics ARE one more core impact player away but amazingly enough they can't just go out and sign whomever they please. Simply put, there aren't any core impact players out there that we have a legitmate chance of signing and you should thank the Sonics management that they realized this and didn't go and get all stupid and throw a ton of money at an average player like Larry Hughes.

Myk said...

Black,
Typical Seattle fan...if Jason Terry and Jamal Crawford had both grown up in Texas or any other state we wouldn't even care about them..but no they player HS ball in Seattle so they must be REALLY good, can we sign Dickerson too while we are at it?

Crawford in absolutely no way is a stud, he is an overpaid shootfirst combo guard who doesn't play d, rebound, distribute and can't shoot for a high %...

SURE SOUNDS LIKE A PLAYER I WANT ON MY TEAM!!!

Biggie said...
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Sonic EJ said...

Can we stop talking about players from Seattle.

Please!

Biggie said...
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Sonic EJ said...

Wow, LOL.

I didn't know you could name 5 white players Black.

Philthy said...

Sonics ej,

"Please do not offend me as a fellow Sonics fan with John Stockton comparisons.

Maybe up here in Seattle we are a little too close to the situation."

What point are you trying to make? You don't really say anything here to back up...well anything. What? You don't have faith in Luke? Big whoop. I have enough faith for both of us.

I went to most of the games with my season-ticket-holding friends, and watched the ones I didn't go to. And yes I'm from Seattle too.

Either go with the discussion or leave it be. Don't throw that junk out there.

I'll make all the Stockton/Nash comparisons I want to. Why not? Luke's improved his first two years. He's proven the skeptics wrong about a lot of things, and continues to do it about other things. I'm not talking about his no-look passing. I'm talking about his ability to run a team. There aren't many out there like him.

Again, I think too many people look for one or two things in players and if they're not that then they pass them off as not being good or having upside. Luke won't ever be in the slam dunk contest, he probably won't ever get a shoe deal for flashiness, but he's got great, great potential. I'm just glad you're not the Sonics GM ;).

Biggie said...
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Philthy said...

Diezel,

OK, now you're being ridiculous comparing Luke Ridnour to Dwayne Wade. Wade's a superstar. Nobody said Ridnour was at that level. Could he be? Sure. But Wade's not a point guard...not a pure point, that is. And developing as a pure point is the toughest thing to do in this league.

As far as late-season heroics...he dominated against Bibby, which was a major reason we won that series.

Myk said...

Black,
You are right I forgot how far away Federal Way is from Seattle..maybe we can get some of the other all time Washington HS greats..what about Michael Johnson, all the guys from the Sehome teams, Grant Leap!

Myk said...

Five PGs second year stats:

A: 3.52 A/TO Ratio
B: 3.24 A/TO Ratio
C: 2.75 A/TO Ratio
D: 2.63 A/TO Ratio
D: 2.39 A/TO Ratio

Which one would you want leading your team at PG? Which was on is Luke?

Biggie said...
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Jack W said...

Myk-

"As for the Sonics drafts...someone please show me another suceessful young team where 6 of their top 8 in the rotation:

Luke
Rashard
Nick
Reggie
Vlade
Swift"


1)I thought you were saying these players were drafted by the Sonics and were part of the rotation.

I was just saying that Swift and Evans didn't fit in both categories.

2) Chicago. There are other playoff teams, that have at least four players in their 8/9 man rotation, that have only played for that one team.

3) Great trade by the Sonics...

4) "THERE AREN'T MANY OF THEM OUT THERE" ... I agree

Myk said...

Philthy,
Luke Ridnour WILL NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER be comparable to Dwyane Wade.

In five years there will still be a debate on who should have been taken first Lebron or Wade. I think Luke is a decent little PG who does his job and isn't flashy, but please everyone on this blog never compare him to someone like Wade.

Jack W said...

Diezel-

You make some good points.

Sonic EJ said...

Settle down philthy,

I don't have to be a stats geek to understand every young, 6ft point guard for the next 20 years is going to be compared to Stockton.

It's just a dumb conversation.

Stockton was a freak.

6ft white PGs don't do what Stockton did.

Philthy said...

Diezel,

You underestimate Luke's defensive ability. Seriously? Does anybody actually watch Sonics games?

To quote Sean Deveney of the Sporting News, "The big surprise to outsiders is Ridnour's defense, which was supposed to be a weak spot. But he has added more than 10 pounds of muscle, and the Sonics expected Ridnour to be a good defender when they drafted him. Before the 2003 draft, according to G.M. Rick Sund, player personnel director David Pendergraft said Ridnour had "tennis feet," meaning he can shuffle quickly and still maintain his balance. Little wonder--Ridnour was a four-year letterman in tennis in high school. . . ."

Ridnour pressured defenders full court every minute he played last season, and did it very effectively. Is he Bruce Bowen? Of course not. But he's quickly improving and did some great things last season on the defensive end of the court.

Myk said...

Jack,
Yes Chicago was the only team I could think of that fit that criteria..but they also had lotto picks for years. That is my point the Sonics have actually done pretty damn good at rebuilding for never having a pick in the top 10

Biggie said...
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Myk said...

Signing Michael Johnson is just as ludacrious as you saying that Jamal Crawford is a stud

Philthy said...

Myk,

I didn't compare Luke to Wade. Read the posts. Diezel did. I told him that was stupid.

Sonics ej,

*sighs* it's hilarious to me. As soon as black enters the conversation, the level of intelligence greatly diminishes and it always turns into thing about race.

Fine. Let's not compare Luke to Stockton or Nash. The bottom line is that there really just aren't many black point guards who are pass-first point guards. Brevin Knight, of course, but really not any stars, unless you count Kidd, who's mixed.

But who cares. The point is, Luke's a different kind of player. He's most similar to Stockton and Nash, but of course, as you've all pointed out and as I've said before, Luke needs to improve his shooting.

That comes, though. Michael Jordan shots like 17% from the arc his first year or two. Lebron James was supposed to be a terrible shooter, but shot a respectable 35% from the arc last year.

Is Luke Jordan or James? Of course not (I know there'll be some moron who says I compared the two). But it shows that all shooting is is practice and if there's one thing noone can argue against about Luke is that he's a practice nut.

So, just wait. We'll see. I think he'll be a nicer player than y'all think.

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Biggie said...
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Myk said...

Phithy,

And I quote:

"OK, now you're being ridiculous comparing Luke Ridnour to Dwayne Wade. Wade's a superstar. Nobody said Ridnour was at that level. Could he be? Sure."

I understand what you are saying and I agree mostly but Luke will not ever be in Wade's category. I think if Luke even was considered a star that would be pretty amazing

Biggie said...
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Jack W said...

Myk-


"1) You are taking your stats and looking at them only so they will help your argument. Anyone else notice that Luke's Mins doubled to 31 mins, Nash was still only playing 21 mins a game after year two and wasn't even a starter until much later in their career."

Please read my orginal post. The post you're commenting on was in response to S70.

Please stop putting words into my mouth.

I wasn't saying the defining characteristic is FG %. I compared the two only because S70 brought it up. In addition, his facts were wrong or skewed at best.

What I did was compare the four guards he brought up to LR. LR has only played two seasons.Therefore, I took the first two seasons from each player that S70 brought up. Then I showed the total career shooting percentage of each PG.

How did I:

"You are taking your stats and looking at them only so they will help your argument." ???

Don't you think it's fair to compare players stats over the length of his career?

Then I said:

"It's not exactly fair to compare Ridnour's numbers to the other players because he's only had two years of data. Nevertheless, it's highly improbable that Ridnour increases his % to anywhere near a Stockton or Nash." .

Myk, how is that fair?

You wrote:

"...Nash was still only playing 21 mins a game after year two and wasn't even a starter until much later in their career."

Nash was a starter his third year.

Jack W said...

Sorry...

Please read my orginal post. The post you're commenting on was in response to S70.

I meant to say...The post was in response to S70. Meaning it might not make a lot of sense unless you read the first post I wrote.

Jack W said...

Myk-

"3) Like the other poster said, don't you have to take into account that Nash's numbers dropped to: .363 his third year (and that was the first year he became a full time starter..)"

Yes, I agree, you should take into account every year. Hence, I included his career number.

Biggie said...
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JohnS said...

I think is is fair to say that no one knows whether Ridnour will become all-star material or whether he'll compare to Nash or Stockton over the course of a career. I do feel he can improve his shooting - he shot as high as 46% from the field in college (Nash's highest at Santa Clara was 44% - Stockton admittedly was a freak at 58% at Gonzaga!)

Billups is a great example of a PG who didn't break 40% from the field until his fifth year. He's now shooting 44% from the field.

My opinion is that Luke is going to be an all-star point guard sometime over the next few years. Certainly possible he could fail miserably or be average but I don't think it will happen. We can agree to disagree.

I am totally on board that we need a good center to compete for a title. I don't feel, however, that we need lots of points from our center. Blocks and boards are what we need - an intimidating shot blocking presence to shore up the defensive liabilities of Ridnour, Allen and Lewis (Collison can hold his own).

I feel like Swift can give us 15-20 minutes of defense and boards next year and 30 minutes the year after that. What he isn't is an athletic, run the floor center. If we want that, we should try and land Hunter. Petro isn't going to help us much over the next year or two.

Jack W said...

Myk-

"4) You are right the Sonics ARE one more core impact player away but amazingly enough they can't just go out and sign whomever they please. Simply put, there aren't any core impact players out there that we have a legitmate chance of signing and you should thank the Sonics management that they realized this and didn't go and get all stupid and throw a ton of money at an average player like Larry Hughes."

I would disagree that Hughes was an average player. But, would agree that it's good that the Sonics don't throw money at just anyone.

But in WW 11 years, how many impact/core free agents, from other
NBA teams, has he signed?

The Sonics are in the best position to win a championship in a long time. I would hate to see it blown waiting on players that don't develop.

Plus, I would like to see a step in improvement from this upcoming year's roster. As of right NOW, I'm just saying it's not looking good.

Jack W said...

Black-

A.Houston signed for the league min. would be a good signing for any team.

Crawford is not a goof fit for the Sonics just for his salary.

kel said...

I agree with Sonics70 regarding our needs at center and hopefully that is what the Sonics will focus on now. The Seattle Times reports today that the Sonics have narrowed their search to Potapenko, Dale Davis and a "mystery candidate". They also said Hunter was originally expected to be outside the Sonic's price range, but the market may be drying up so his value is decreasing. As Sonics70 said, Hunter can run the floor, board and block some shots. I'd love to see the Sonics make a run at him. I think he's only 24, and if either Swift or Petro develops, Seattle will be in good shape in the middle for years to come.

Biggie said...
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Biggie said...
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Jack W said...

S70-

Can SG Marcus Brown of CSKA Moscow play the 2 and 3?

I would think the Sonics would prefer a guy that could play the 2/3 position after signing RB.

Locked on Sports said...

Reaction to comments

The idea of signing Ray and dropping all others the Sonics still could do and the idea was to get a big. What big would you get. Chandler? The Bulls would have matched. Dalembert? the Sixers would have matched. That player just doesn't exist. Kwame Brown? Is that worth the gamble.

Biggie said...
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Jack W said...

Potapenko is okay, but he's only played in 50 % of his games in the last three years. Would he really be a good signing for the starting 5 position?

Also, I thought the Sonics said they wanted to get a vet center.

JohnS said...

Jack W,

He is pretty small at 6-3 so I can't see him getting any time at SF. He would basically be a Flip replacement. I guess the question for him in choosing a team is who can give him the most PT?

If he's backing up Allen, he can expect to get a max of 13 mins a game, maybe more if he occasionally plays PG. I would think the Sonics want to get Ray down to maybe 35 a game (what Duncan plays) to reduce wear and tear.

He would be buried on the Spurs behind Ginobili, Parker, Udrih and Barry. Cavs might have the most PT to offer since they haven't worked out their PG situation yet -Hughes plays 39 a game at SG so not much there either. I know the Cavs really want Jaric so if they get him, not much for Brown there.

His A/T ratio is about 1.3/1 so not really PG material in the Sonics mold. He is a pure SG, a scorer.

As some earlier posters pointed out, a heck of a lot depends on what happens with Vlade and Damien. If we lose those guys we have a big hole to fill at the 3. I get the feeling they are focusing on current holes by pursuing a backup at the 2 in a 4-guard rotation and worry about any other holes as they come up.

Anonymous said...

Huh huh. He said "holes".

Black said...

I'm a self-loathing black man.

Anonymous said...

Hey black! Tag you're it!!!

Biggie said...
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Biggie said...
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Anonymous said...

Why are you guys saying racist things?? I'll bet you wouldn't say them to anyones face. That's pretty chicken stuff.

Anonymous said...

Black that's "your" not "you're" as in you are. I knew you lacked some education.

Biggie said...
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Anonymous said...

It's o.k. to blog on this site black, but use proper english and don't blackify everything you say.

Otay?

Myk said...

Totally agree with Locke, you guys are all saying we need that great player and well he isn't out there, and the ones that are were restricted so we wouldnt have gotten them anyway..AND..to even consider offering money to the Restricted FA would have meant rescinding your tender offers to Vlad and Damien.

Jack W,
My comment saying that you are taking your stats and only looking at what you want to look at are based on the fact you are saying that after two years there is no way he could improve to be as good as Nash, but you are only looking at Nash's supposed increase in FG% as the factor that knocks Luke out. This despite the fact that:

- Luke started in year two (Nash year 3)

- Luke had a higher Assist to TO ratio in year two than Nash

- Nash's FG% plummeted the first year he started and played real minutes.

All three of those points prove that your arugment is not logically correct, the only way for it to remain logically correct is to use the numbers which you posted but don't show the whole story.

Obviously we don't know how good Luke will be (if I could predict the future I would go buy a lotto ticket) but you can't use only certain stats to prove your point when there are many more out there that prove your point wrong.

Biggie said...
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Diezel said...

I dont mind getting disagreement from others that's what this blog is about but Philty... u say Luke dominated Mike Bibby and thats one of the main reasons we won the Sac series are u high??? I think Ray had a little more to do that than Luke. Bibby averaged 19.6 ppg, 6.6 assists 4.4 rebounds, and 1.4 steals compared to Lukes 8.4ppg, 5 assists, 3.2 rebounds, 1.2 steals and shot freaking 32 PERCENT from the field and 20 PERCENT from 3 point land, so how u can figure he dominated him is mind boggling. The reason they hung in the series was the fact that Bibby and Mobley were going off. Hence the upgrade we need defensively in the backcourt.

And I never compared Dwayne Wade and Luke I said Luke needs to be more "Dwayne Wade" like that means be more aggresive take the open look and drive to the whole.

I made the Jamal comment more of a joke but he averaged more assists than Ray a game and I know there 3 point shooting percentage is about the same and all that critique about Jamals D what about Rays???

Lastly Luke was a Lottery pick a 3 year college player(not some High School kid) a Pac Ten player of the Year why can't we be critical of him? The guy killed us in the San Antonio series.

Anonymous said...

black,have you ever looked in the mirror and didn't like what you saw?

Anonymous said...

I can almost guarantee that "black" is a white kid having some fun with us. I can imagine him at his little IKEA computer desk at his folks' house with his cap pointed sideways, wearing his oversized Iverson jersey, munching on some delicious cookies and refreshing milk that mom just brought to him.

Biggie said...
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Biggie said...
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Anonymous said...

You're right anonymous 2. I think that black is really a white kid in Mercer Island trying to be black because he wants to be black. Black is really white. I'm convinced.

Anonymous said...

Black, I'm the one who said the Sonics should have drafted Nate Robinson and you wanted them to draft the French black center Johan!!!!!Like I said the Sonics will be sorry they didn't try to trade up to draft Nate!!

Biggie said...
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Philthy said...

Here are many replies :):

Myk -

“I think if Luke even was considered a star that would be pretty amazing”

Yes, I agree. I’m not trying to sell Luke as that kind of player, nor am I insinuating that he will necessarily become a Nash or Stockton. I’m just saying he’s that type of player, in that he has the ability to lead a team with his floor game. That type of player is tough to come by. He has a lot of upside and people don’t give his game credit.

Black –
“Wow, no pass first black point guards???? You aren't even supposed to be out of the corner yet!!! Making a point to mention that kid is "mixed", shows how much of a moron you are.”

What’s your point? There aren’t many. There aren’t many pass-first point guards period. You can’t even list any.

Good post Sonics70. I do think Swift is a bit further away in development, but great summation about Ridnour.

Locked on Sports – Thanks for the comments about the lack of bigs available in the free agent market. I think people are missing the point. I keep hearing everyone say over and over that we needed to get a top-notch free agent signed, but they just aren’t out there this off season. Not like that past two off seasons anyway. Trading for Magloire is interesting, though I’d worry about his health. Does anyone know why we haven’t heard more Magloire trade rumors? When healthy, he’s a nice center to have. Do the Hornets want to keep him?

Anonymous – who’s being racist? (I didn’t read all the posts). The only person I’ve ever heard being racist is black in the reverse form. Why is this even an issue? Let’s just talk basketball.

Biggie said...
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Anonymous said...

Black quit pretending you're black when we all know you are a rich white kid in Mercer Island trying to be black. Just because you couldn't get into the 50 cent concert don't be a hater!!

Anonymous said...

All of you are being racist. So is the one guy going to accept blacks meeting, I would love to see it.

Anonymous said...

Yeah...Rainier Beach...let's meet there. Tell you what...you come at me and I'll hold out my arm, plant it on your forehead, and hold you away while you pinwheel your arms helplessly...how's that sound?

Biggie said...
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Anonymous said...

Sorry I didn't know the exact location of your residence black ( I mean white kid pretending to be black)

Biggie said...
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Diezel said...

Hey philty I am still waiting for a response on how Luke dominated Mike Bibby in the first round. I agree stick to bball posts, it's the summer the M's suck the Hawks might suck and the hottest news in Seattle is that people are actually giving a rats a** about the Soops, it's actually really cool. One thing I forgot about, Locke I can't believe u haven't heard of Magic City... Black I know u know what I am talkin' about I need me a apple bottom girl.

Keep the Posts lively I think everyone has some good points I am just really excited about this upcoming season like no other because of last year success and the key losses we had departing. As much as Nate was a huge loss, I think that losing Dean and Dwayne could be just as big. We will see if Sikma and Rock are about anything.

Biggie said...
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Anonymous said...

black look at the Franklin blog!

JohnS said...

Diezel,

Good point about the coaching. We're all talking player moves but a huge unknown is whether Weiss can keep things moving next year.

It sounds like he has some plans to simplify the defense (always a good idea when your team is 25th in the league - better to master 1-2 schemes than be clueless about 4-5 schemes).

I just hope the guy can be tough and fiery when we're down - sometimes the gentle approach doesn't always cut it. That transition from good cop to bad cop can be rough.

I like the idea of speeding up the tempo - I think we have the personnel to make it work. The only time we were effective against SA was when we were pushing it and keeping them from setting their defense. Interestingly that was also when Luke played his best basketball.

Biggie said...
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Anonymous said...

all you have to do is look between your crack black, remember?

Biggie said...
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Myk said...

Diezel,
1) I was suprised because I think other than the firs two games Luke performed better in the SA series than the Sac series, its been awhile so my memory could be fooling me but his numbers showed a better series against SA than Sacramento.

2) Umm you aren't really comparing Crawford to Allen are you? I mean what are you smoking???

Crawford: 398 FG%, .361 3PT%, .843 FT%, 17.7PPG, 2.90RPG, 4.3APG, 1.31SPG

Allen: .428 FG%, .376 3PT%, .883 FT%, 23.9PPG, 4.4RPG, 3.7APG, 1.08SPG

Basically every category Ray does better he even comes close in Assists and Crawford is supposed to be a PG..

AS FOR LUKE:
I think the best comparison for Luke isn't Nash/Stockton it is more like Bogues and Avery Johnson. They were of course a little smaller but they were players that helped run the offense, played smart and over time they could hit the open jump shot. If Luke does that I will be happy.

Anonymous said...

is that because Casey is black? or are you an equal opportunity kind of guy?

Myk said...

I agree, the biggest mistake the Sonics made all offseason isn't signing some imaginary STUD player. It was actually thinking that Bob Weiss is the answer...

Anonymous said...

The sonics should have drafted Nate!!!!!!!!

Biggie said...
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Anonymous said...

You wanted Johan black, I guess he's the next Tim Duncan right????

Biggie said...
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Anonymous said...

I knew you were white if you said my mom was callin and you responded.

Anonymous said...

That's calling black not callin. Remember not to blackify the English.

Biggie said...
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Anonymous said...

black, if you can't take it don't cry about it!!

Biggie said...
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Diezel said...

myk... I am AGREEING with u. I believe overall Ray is a better player than Jamal my point was if u give Ray, Steph, Allan H., Penny, Tim Thomas and every undersized 4/5 in the NBA what do u think Ray could have done? And when he was on the Bulls Jerry Krauss was saving up all this dough to get these top FA and didn't get anyone.

I dont know if anyone seen the AI interview with Steven A. I am not a Steven A fan per say but he did one of the most real and candid interviews I have seen. Give me a guy like AI the guy is a warrior. Did u see what he said about Mo cheeks, just proves how much a idiot Darius Miles is.

Anonymous said...

I didn't see any black bicylists come near Lance Armstong. Who really needs to take steroids?? And you talk about competing!! LOL

Biggie said...
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Biggie said...
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Anonymous said...

This kid black is so white its scary. Going out of his way to sound like a homey. The more you try and sound black, the more we know you're a white kid.

You're a lonely, pathetic kid. Go ahead, give me a homey response...keep it coming...

Biggie said...
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Anonymous said...

But black it's true that there weren't any black riders there but you had seven years to train for it!!!! black men may have the size but white guys have endurance!!!!!!

Jack W said...

Myk-

Obviously, you're reading my comments out of context.

I was responding part to S70 and others...this is from S70:

"I would argue that Ridnour is as good of a defender as Nash, the MVP last year. Luke is an offensive PG (like Nash), no question about it. His goal in his career should be to become an average defender - his offensive skills will outweigh his defensive liabilities in the long run.

Luke will jump to a new level next year because 1) he will ramp up his FG% to an acceptable level as his confidence increases and 2) he will drive more to the rack and get fouled (shoots 90% from the line) and 3) in an up-tempo game will dish out more assists."

I hope Luke improves. In fact, I believe he has the potential to be a better player.

Here was my response to S70(regarding Ridnour) and statement to others(regarding comparisons between Rid and Stockton+).

"How can people compare Ridnour to Stockton or any other good to great PG? His FG % actually went down last year from his rookie season. Very, very few PG's rarely improve their FG % more than marginally over their careers. One example would be J.Kidd. Still he's not a very good shooter. But, he's one of the best ever at distribution. In addition, he rebounds well for a guard. Of course, he has other intangibles that set him apart from other PG's. IMHO, the 05-06 season will be the make or break season for Ridnour."


-Like I said to you before FG % doesn't make a PG. Regardless, I was commenting SPECIFICALLY to what S70 said:

"1) he will ramp up his FG% to an acceptable level as his confidence increases"

This is all I orginally said:

"His FG % actually went down last year from his rookie season. Very, very few PG's rarely improve their FG % more than marginally over their careers."

-(ALL)PG's rarely improve their FG % more than marginally

- Ridnour's % decreased from year one to year two.

Those two points are facts.

Then S70 started in on various players that I did NOT bring up. He was spewing false numbers.

I corrected him. I included the players first two years ONLY to compare to Ridnour's first two years. Just for comparison.

Then I included the career numbers and improvements of those other players only to put out the facts.

You said:

"...saying that after two years there is no way he could improve to be as good as Nash"

NO! I'm not saying that. Again, you're putting words into my mouth. I don't think he could be as good as a SHOOTER as SN/JS.

SN PROVED in 20 min/gm, of his second season, that he could shoot. Yes, we could compare his second to third season. In which he didn't shoot well at all in that third season. In addition, he played for a new team.

Nevertheless, the previous season he did PROVE he could shoot in the NBA. Specifically, the first two years, he played 2348 minutes and successfully made 45 % of his shots(359/759)

Luke Ridnour in 3685 of NBA minutes completed 444 out of 1089 attempts(40.8%).

Does that mean LR can't improve his FG %? No, but after 1000 shots I think we have a good idea of how Ridnour can shoot. There's a very, very high probability that he will never shoot 47.5 - 51.5 % as his career shooting percentage.

In addition, if you would have read my post(s) you would have seen:

"It's not exactly fair to compare Ridnour's numbers to the other players because he's only had two years of data."


You said:

" Luke started in year two (Nash year 3)

- Luke had a higher Assist to TO ratio in year two than Nash

- Nash's FG% plummeted the first year he started and played real minutes.

All three of those points prove that your arugment is not logically correct..."

Again, if you're going to rip my post at least read it(try to understand them).

Just to make sure I understand, you think my two out of three points regarding Rid and (all)NBA point guards are logically incorrect?

Just to review since you may have missed it the first few times:

"-(ALL)PG's rarely improve their FG % more than marginally

- Ridnour's % decreased from year one to year two."

Also, you said:

"but you can't use only certain stats to prove your point when there are many more out there that prove your point wrong."

Yes, I totally agree. But if you had read my posts thoroughly these posts wouldn't even be necessary.

Anonymous said...

Homie is someone who is really white and pretends to be black and sits at her computer typing crap from between her crack

Biggie said...
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Anonymous said...

i knew you were white all along, I take back all the racial stuff I said about you black (I mean white kid pretending to be black)

Philthy said...

Diezel - “Hey philty I am still waiting for a response on how Luke dominated Mike Bibby in the first round”

I’m sorry, Diezel. What was your question? I must’ve missed it (there’s a whole lot of these posts). I’m not sure what to tell ya. He dominated in all games except maybe the one they lost. Bibby was completely taken out of his game. Other than James’ contribution, that was kind of the big deal of the series. If you watched the games I don’t see how you could miss it. All the commentators were talking about it.

Good points about Weiss, Sonics70. I think he’ll be great, though I’m a little worried about him cracking down when/if guys start getting lazy.

Myk – “Luke performed better in the SA series than the Sac series,” Luke sucked in the Spurs series, especially in the first two games. Parker owned him.

Why are people ranking on Bob Weiss when they don’t even know anything about him? He’s been an assistant through two of the Sonics successful playoff runs. He was credited for designing the Sonics defense that won over 50 games this last season. In the early 90s (his last stint as a head coach), he took a not so good Atlanta Hawks team to the playoffs, when they hadn’t been in a while. Weiss is a brilliant coach. He needs to be tougher, but I think he will because he knows it.

Anonymous said...

ridnour's future is a tough one to judge- at least for me. he doubled his minutes, points and more than doubled his assists and generally looked better out there compared to last year. he upped his 3pt% by 5%. but per minute his scoring was down 1 point per 48 minutes and his raw FG% is still
a little weak. and his +/- rating has been the worst on the team for two straight years among regular rotation players. it will be interesting to him and the sonics without daniels and see how much was lost by his departure. i assume ridnour will continue to improve but i dont know how much.

Biggie said...
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Anonymous said...

Isn't posting under black just as generic as posting under anonymous?
And that's Bitch not Biatch, you have too many typos black.

And about the genital myth, I didn't know it was true for the women as well.

Philthy said...

Diezel,

Sorry man, I blew it. Ridnour didn't dominate Bibby in the playoffs. I'm not sure what I was thinking of. Scratch that, my bad. lol

That was just kind of a dumb comment on my part.

Anonymous said...

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!ha ha ha ha ha ha

Biggie said...
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Anonymous said...

That's with not wit. Wit is what I'm gifted with. With is I'm with your momma. Width is what i'm going use on her.

Anonymous said...

LOL!!!!!!

Biggie said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Lance Uppercut said...

Not to nit-pick, but the Hawks team that Weiss coached was actually pretty decent. Here's a link to a posting on the fabulous SuperSonicSoul website that discusses that team in some detail:
http://www.supersonicsoul.com/2005/07/weiss.html

Anonymous said...

Good guys do finish first

Anonymous said...

Lance isn't the greatest athlete ever. I said HE IS ONE OF THE BEST. Go back and read it black to get your facts straight.

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