Thursday, August 18, 2005

OFFER SHEET, TRE SIMMONS AND DALE DAVIS


The offer sheet we told you about arrived today and is exactly as anticipated. The Sonics now have 7 days to decide whether or not to match the offer sheet.
The part of this equation that is unclear is that Wilkins wants to be in Minnesota not in Seattle. Would he have signed the offer sheet if he thought Seattle was going to match? His agent, Mark Bartelstein is one of the best in the business.
We now know why Wilkins turned down the offer from Nate and the Blazers.

In other news I talked with Tre Simmons today and he expects to sign with the Sonics in the next few days. If Wilkins leaves for Minnesota then Simmons would be a nice fit for the Sonics. He can shoot and is a surprisingly good defender.
This is a good example of how I feel Wilkins is replaceable. However, the Sonics management talks about Wilkins size, his defensive capabilities and his ability to drive to the basket as things that separate him at this position.
Bottom line if I am the Sonics unless you are certain that Wilkins is going to be able to be a back-up 2 and 3 and give you 18 to 25 minutes a night then I would let him go to Minnesota. He is a replaceable piece.

The decision on Dale Davis should happen today. Davis is deciding between Seattle and Detroit. Detroit falls out of the picture if Michael Finley goes to Detroit, but the word around the league is that Finley to Miami is a done deal.

238 comments:

1 – 200 of 238   Newer›   Newest»
Anonymous said...

i would be interested in the terms of a simmons deal, guaranteed or not, trigger date, one year or two.

seems like a sensible - and cheaper again- option to wilkins or murray.

Anonymous said...

finley to miami makes sense on playing time, maybe money too, the city, and stan was his college coach i hear.

Anonymous said...

Wow, Miami will have a lot of guys wanting the ball. Shaq, Wade, Walker, Finley, that's a lot of firepower.

Anonymous said...

Can't the Sonics do a sign and trade with Wilkins? $3 mil/yr is a lot for a player who showed flashes. Hard situation to be in for Sonics management.

Anonymous said...

NO, for reference the Sonics have no bird rights to Wilkins, therefore they have to use their mid-level to sign him which is a big part of the problem. The mid-level cannot be used to SAT. Furthermore once a player has signed an offer sheet you either match or you don't, the option to SAT even if it had been there previously goes away.

Anonymous said...

That's a lot of money to tie up for 5 years, especially for a guy who was an UFA. He has no track record. If he had played for 2-3 years, then maybe it's worth it. What are the Wolves thinking?

P Whit said...

Hey Locke,

Would Dale Davis mean no Reggie Evans?

Seems like there aren't enough minutes for Potapenko, Davis, Nick, Danny, Vlady (when he plays the 4), AND Reggie. That's almost too deep.

P Whit said...

There's no minutes for Damien either by the way, as far as I can tell.

....unless they think they'd better let Radmanovic go, which would be a stupid idea.

Anonymous said...

not to mention some minutes needing to be thrown to swift and petro to develop them. If it were a choice between davis and evans id definitely take reggie, otherwise I wouldnt mind seeing DD on the sonics

Anonymous said...

Davis is 6-11 and Evans is barely 6-8. Davis can play center and is a defensive force in the paint. He is only a decent shot blocker in terms of stats but he has top-notch weakside help defense and changes lots of shots. He is one of those guys that can anchor a defense and allow the perimeter defenders to gamble knowing that Davis will not allow a layup or dunk if they get beat.

I don't think anyone else we have provides that kind of help except for Collison. Swift showed that control of the paint during summer league even if his offense was pretty weak. Obviously can't count on that continuing in the regular season though.

P Whit said...

Reggie brings that energy, but Davis, as sad is this sounds, is worlds better offensively. That's not saying much, but Reggie's +/- when he's in the game is absolutely horrid; the worst on the team. To have Davis' length and his adequacy on offense would be a step up from Reggie. And he's a very good rebounder per minute also.

It would be sad to see that firey, intense presence go, but I'm not sure there's a worse offensive player in college basketball, let alone the NBA.

P Whit said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
P Whit said...

Evans averaged a solid 1.3 MWOD's per game last year.

MWOD? Yeah, that's Missed Wide Open Dunks. He had a really high average. I'll give him that.

Anonymous said...

actually the worst +/- of anybody in the regular rotation is ridnour for two years in a row

Diezel said...

I am against totally brining DD, but if the Soopes bring in Tre, that will make my day at work go so much better. I was so mad when we didn't use that 55th pick on Will I about went postal.

Tre is no superstar yet, but I can see him doing some of the things Richie did two years ago or what Damien did last year. Locke is dead wrong though Tre's biggest weakness is his D, but the guy is lethal from Tre land, and if u keep Vlade which is looking more likely that u are, then u have luke driving and kicking it out to either Ray, Vlade or Tre, that gets me a little bit more excited.

DD though is a head scratcher, even if u don't want to pay Reggie, as proven last year Danny can play 4/5, if u were going to sign DD and Vitaly then why didn't u Amnesty Danny and use the money elsewhere???

Anonymous said...

The amnesty clause only refers to the luxury tax (over $62M this year I believe) and has no impact on the salary cap. You can't just waive Fortson and suddenly have $6M more to spend on other FAs. We're not in danger of going into luxury tax territory this year.

I have to admit though, if we sign Davis and Vlade - I don't see any minutes at all for Fortson assuming you want to give Swift 10-15 so he can develop.

Anonymous said...

amnesting danny would not have saved any money because the sonics werent going to be in luxury tax territory and that is all it saves is luxury tax, not cap space.

Anonymous said...

i guess you beat me to it by a few seconds. sorry for the repeat

merritt said...

The amnesty clause provides only luxury-tax relief, with no salary-cap relief. So a team can't release a player to gain cap space. They weren't in the luxury-tax range, so it wouldn't make any sense to cut Danny.

merritt said...

Likewise on getting beat to the punch on the amnesty clause...

Myk said...

I guess I liked Reggie and his "energy" but if an NBA team who is defending a division championship needs to pay a guy 3 million a year because he brings them the energy they need to win I think it is in a lot of trouble.

Davis, is taller (read: can play center) and will allow him to play 20 mins, Potapenko to play 20 mins and Swift to play 8 minuts at C.

PF will have: Collison for 20-25, Radman 15-20 (will get other playing time at SF) and 8 mins for Fortson (should only slightly decrease the number of times he fouls out).

The best thing about this situation is that Davis can also play some PF and if we want to go small you have Nick to play C. I actually like what the Sonics have done with their PF/C position. They know they do not have a "stud" to build around so they have stocked the position with many interchangeable parts that can all play decent ball if they stay within their roles. Besides Swift I don't think there is one PF/C that couldn't play either position for 5 mins...great for foul trouble situations.

Myk said...

As for the back court, much like the discussions about Nate and Jamaal Crawford, I strongly believe that none of you guys would care about Tre if he had played his college ball at Florida State or some other college.

However, with a back court rotation of Brunson/Ridnour, Allen/Flip and Rashard/Tre you are still young and it appears that each bench player gives the Sonics something completely different than what the Starter will bring, which again makes the mix and match possibilities great.

If this is truly our starting 12 for the season it simply means that the season hinges solely on Rashard's improvement. Can he improve in the paint and maintain his All-Star status? If so, the Sonics are one of the few teams that are literally 12 men deep, and unlike other teams that tried it (Portland, Memphis) we are 12 deep but the guys on the bench don't try and think they are stars, they all know it is Ray's Team.

Anonymous said...

I'd rather have Davis over Evans anyday of the week. Evans is great when it comes to the hustling plays, but I'm sure we can find an energy guy and pay him quite a bit less. Davis would give us rebounding and low post defender. Even though he's old, he's still in great shape.

Anonymous said...

I'm guessing with the signing of Simmons and the likely invites of Omar Thomas and Alex Scales to training camp...we may not see Flip Murray again. Ideally we would get some draft picks or a veteran backup of some kind in a S&T. I feel like any of those young guys can give you better than a 10 PER off the bench.

Also, since we brought Brunson on board, Flip will get even fewer minutes backing up only Ray (about 10 per game) and we know how effective Flip is in limited minutes.

Omar Thomas, by the way, is a better version of Murray. Goes to the rack and gets fouled all the time but doesn't turn the ball over like Flip. Shoots 85% from the line. He had almost identical numbers to Flip in college but played against Div I competition versus Div II.

Sonic EJ said...

Dear Sonics,

The Sonics are going to sign a Husky?

Oh my God!

This is great!

I am an every day Sonics fan and I don’t know much about college basketball but I do follow UW.

Maybe the Sonics could talk Todd McCullagh out of retirement.

Then we could trade for Nate Robinson.

How about Donald Watts as a backup guard instead of Flip?

Don’t get me wrong UW is not the only school I watch.

I also like Gonzaga a lot as well.

Casey Cavalry anyone?

Thanks for your time. Go Sonics!

Best Regards,

Homer Sportsfan-

Diezel said...

I could have lived with DD if they didn't already of signed Vitaly, and dfated in back to back years Robert and Petro. If this was Wallys plan then why did he use the 25th pic on Petro when he could have had either Salim or Von Wafer which many are calling the next Gil Arenas a first round talent who for some reason slipped into the second.

I would rather of had Lawerence Roberts than DD. The guys finished, and Vitaly what has ever done in the league???

I still would rather have Reggie, even though he has no O, he gives u the intangabiles like a Rodman minus the offcourt stuff. Granted most of the guys I have been suggesting where too expensive to the Soopes(Chandler and Hughes) but the FA we are signing are 2nd tier at best.

It looks to me like the Sonics are getting ready for the 07' draft and getting a chance at Greg Oden, cuz the way the team is now, and how everyone in the West seems to be improving we are looking at another lottery.

I don't care what people say Nate had so much to do with last season and I just don't know if Weiss can handle the situation.

Plus how happy is Vlade going to be, is Danny going to do another Ced Ceballos and jus take off again? Will Luke improve from the Torching he got in the Spurs series, Will Ray play any Defense, will Rashard take his game to the next level or just be a one and done all star, like Wally Scezerbiak. Too many questions and to me not enough answers by the Sonics.

The Sonics could have used the Amnesty on Danny if they signed Tyson Chandler or Larry Hughes.

merritt said...

Nice posts, Myk. I agree with your assessment of the probable line-up, but think that Radmanovic will still command more minutes at the 4.

Sonic EJ said...

Diezel,

I feel you man...Today is another tough day to be a Sonics fan.

Maybe the Sonics should be loading up for a shot a Greg Oden.

I would take a top five pick in the draft over a first round playoff exit.

Anonymous said...

Sonics drafted Swift and Petro because history shows you can't get good centers via free agency or trade. Shaq is the rare exception - LA was both brilliant for bringing him in and foolish for letting him go. Typically you get guys like old Ewing or old Mutombo - no one gives up great young centers in their prime.

History also shows that it is tough to be a good defensive team without a big, shot blocking center to anchor your defense. Mid-90s Bulls are the exception.

We figured that between two 19-year old 7-footers (one with good shot blocking technique already and the other with more than enough athleticism to become an intimidator) our downside is a strong defensive center and the upside is a pretty damn good all-around big man.

Sonics management are signing Davis and Pot as a 1-2 year bridge until these two guys can develop. I like the moves.

I also love Reggie but he is expendable - just don't want to see him in a Blazers or T-wolves uniform!

P Whit said...

Sonics ej,

You sound awfully bummed for being a Sonics fan.

Your team is bringing back a nearly identical team to the one that nearly went to the Western Conference Finals. They downgraded slightly with Brunson replacing Antonio as the third guard. If they sign Davis and Potapenko as the centers, that is a dramatic upgrade at the center position. Jerome played 12-15 minutes per game and gave you pretty much nothing. Davis replaces his defense (sans the minimal shot-blocking Jerome provided), and both Davis and Potapenko upgrade the center spot's intelligence, game savvy, and toughness. You should be celebrating in the streets if Sonics end up with that two-man center punch.

I'm not sure about your thoughts on Wilkins, but if you're concerned about losing him, remember this: the guy didn't play significant minutes in more than 10 games or so, when Radmanovic was hurt.

I really don't see how this is a sad day to be a Sonics fan, or how you can justify a first round exit in the playoffs. All of the Sonics core is returning, there's an upgrade at center (if they land Davis), and Evans' ineptitude on offense is probably gone.

The offseason hasn't landed a big-name big man, but a big-name big man would throw off the balance of what the Sonics have already established.

It's been a quiet offseason, but improvements are being made...if you don't believe that, they are definitely no worse than last year.

Sonic EJ said...

Thanks.

P Whit said...

No problem. Hope that helps.

Biggie said...
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Anonymous said...

PG:Luke/Brunson/Cleaves SG:Ray/?/Simmons SF:Rashard/Vlade PF:Nick/Vlade/Fortson C:Potepenko/Davis/Swift/Petro All they need is someone to spell Ray. It sounds from what you guys are saying like they have plenty of options in undrafted players. I like the solidity at center, plus the powerful offense of Ray, Rashard, Vlade with Luke distrubuting. Add Collison's all around game and a few minutes of destructive force in Fortson, throw in Brunson as a solid back up PG, and add the inspiring presence that is Mateen Cleaves. Get em to play some team d and this is a good team!

Biggie said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
P Whit said...

If you're looking for focus on defense, you are rooting for the wrong team. The management and the new coach are committed to a fast-faced, run-and-gun, three-point shooting style. That's what their personnel dictates - Luke, Ray, Rashard, Vlady, Nick. If you want a complete makeover and a focus on defense, then trade Luke, Ray, Rashard, and Vlady, and start over from square one.

Biggie said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Anonymous said...

Sounds like Weiss is a bit more pragmatic on defense than Nate was. Nate was trying to conform the team to his ideal defensive schemes - my guess is that Weiss will conform the defense to the players he has. Riley was a genius at conforming his schemes based on the cards he was dealt - run and gun in LA, ground and pound in NY. Whatever works.

This team's bread and butter is going to be offense for the next 5 years - no doubt about that. If we had only been average on defense last year we would have won 58-60 games. Let's not get so stuck on defense that we kill our offensive chemistry.

I like the idea of bringing in some toughness and defense with Davis and simplifying our defensive schemes - let's focus on what does work rather than what should work.

P Whit said...

"They're not getting anyone decent!"

I would argue that each of the player acquisitions has been decent. They aren't extremely talented "name" signings. They are signing role players...which is exactly what they need. I think you are missing the fact that the Sonics were an excellent basketball team last year. If Radmanovic hadn't been injured, they would have won even more than the 52 games they won.

They are a young, improving team, with a superstar in Allen, and an All-Star in Lewis.

You are looking to sign better players, which is fine. But I would argue that they already have the players they need. They don't need more great players. They need the necessary role players around the big pieces they already have.

I just don't understand where you are coming from. They are already good (good record, great performance in the playoffs) and have a couple of young players who can only get better. They need some help in the middle, but that's about it.

Not sure what else I can say to help your pessimism.

P Whit said...

Well said anonymous.

Myk said...

Sonics EJ,

I love the post about the Homer Seattle fan..I have been saying this for months

Black and Diezel,

Your ignorance is just plain amazing. This team won a NW Division Championship AND played an exciting interesting version of basketball. Do I want the Sonics to win a title? Of course, but I also realize that only six cities since 1989 have won a title so it is obviously something you can't just snap your fingers and have.

If you are going ot bitch and moan about the Sonics team and what they are NOT doing either stop watching them or at least understand the facts:

FACT 1: The Sonics would have never been able to sign Chandler because he is a RFA and the Bulls would have matched the offer.

FACT 2: If the Sonics had been stupid enough to send out an offer for Chandler, that would have required them to give up the rights to Vlade, Flip, Damien and Reggie....and once the Bulls matched the offer (after 7 days) they would have been left with NOTHING

FACT 3: Why in the hell would you have signed Larry Hughes? If we had Ray then he would be a back up if you are saying to sign him to replace Ray you are even more ignorant than I thought.

FACT 4: The Sonics could not have used the amnesty rule to drop Danny and sign a FA, all the amnesty rule does is help prevent the owners from paying the dollar for dollar luxury tax on a contract. Since the Sonics were not (and are not) going to be over the luxury tax that would mean the Sonics would have cut Danny AND paid his full 6 million dollar contract AND not gotten any cap space. That sure does seem like a smart move to me.

FACT 5: There is a reason you need to have a couple vets (DD and Potapenko) and that is because past history has proven that HS aged C do not progress as quickly as other HS aged players. That doesn't mean you shouldn't sign them because I sure would love to wait a couple years and get a player like KG, J. O'Neal etc. than nothing.

If you guys are true Sonics fans like you say you are you would realize that making changes just for changes sake are what kills franchises. Go root for the Knicks they are always trying to make the sexy move, I heard there are lots of empty seats at MSG

Myk said...

Lets make a blog rule no one can say we need to sign "PLAYER X" unless there is at least a 50% chance that it could happen...

We all live in reality and should have to conform to those rules

Sonic EJ said...

p whit,

All it would take to make me celebrate in the streets is for the Sonics to go get someone that is an upgrade over someone they had last year.

I must admit my emotions on the Sonics off season waver between pissed and depressed. I do sometimes fantasize about becoming Heat EJ or Suns EJ.

The great chemistry and depth that the team had last year is going away. Go find a way to get Walker before the Heat did and I’m ecstatic. How about Reef after Rod Thorn nixed the trade with Portland?

So far the Sonics plan seems to be addition by subtraction and not signing bad deals in and effort to be good for a long time. I think Ray is the reason they are good and he is going to be old real soon. Ray single handedly made Jerome a decent player. Imagine what he could do with a talent like Chandler.

I’m obviously not a GM but as a fan I think it is the GM’s job to be creative and figure out a way to make a deal for a talented big man. Then if you get screwed and he sucks be creative again and get rid of him.

It doesn’t have to be a Center. Collison is going to be real good in a few years but we still need a PF right now. Quality big men are easy to unload.

Think the Heat are worried about three years from now? Who cares because they might win 2 titles by then.

The Sonic front office is not aggressive enough. They act like they are trying to build a corporation not an NBA champion.

I know I’m going to take heat from Seahawks fans for this but:

BRING BACK BOB WHISSET!!!!!!!!!!!!!

P Whit said...

Right on, MYK. You know what you're talking about.

As you say, I would love Chandler - great fit - but that is a DREAM. The Bulls won't let him go. And even if they did, the offer sheet to get to that point would be way too big.

Sonic EJ said...

black,

My buddy and I actually lit my old Shawn Kemp replica jearsy on fire last year when they drafted Swifty. LOL!

Biggie said...
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P Whit said...

You want to add Walker for chemistry? Ha!

Adding another scorer is absolutely pointless. It's foolhardy.

Anonymous said...

So far the Sonics plan seems to be addition by subtraction and not signing bad deals in and effort to be good for a long time.

Wow Sonic EJ, this sounds really horrible. The Sonics are trying to be good for a long time. What could be worse than that??? Hopefully the Sonics don't end up being good for a long time, that would be a PR disaster.

Biggie said...

You guys are straigt delirious if you think Bob Weiss is going to get these guys to do the same stuff Nate did. We are not improving, just the fact that we settled on this sad sack coach, proves my point. IGNORANT????
You guys are going to look like morons (to me you alredy do) when you see our final record next season.

Myk said...

Sonic EJ,

I love this comment:

"I’m obviously not a GM but as a fan I think it is the GM’s job to be creative and figure out a way to make a deal for a talented big man. Then if you get screwed and he sucks be creative again and get rid of him."

First: don't you think every GM isn't trying to figure out a way to get a big man onto their team. Hopefully, you really don't think that Sund isn't trying to do anything...that is just more ignorance. Obviously, if the Sonics thought they could get a big man and it made sense then they would do it. Don't you think they understand that the more wins they get the more money they will make...

Second: There have been so many other times that the Sonics have tried to get a big man just for the sake of signing a big man (McIlvane, Booth, Baker etc) and I guarantee you that all of you were begging to get rid of those guys as soon as they hit the floor.

You can't have it both ways..can't blame the Management team for not "trying" to bring in big men and then when it doesn't work out blame them for doing so..

Myk said...

Black,
I totally agree with you on the Coach front. The Coach is the one thing on your team that you are not bound to the rules of the salary cap. Sonics should have found someone better than Gilbertson..I mean Weiss.

However, if you think that Weiss is such a bad coach then what would be the point of getting other players? I don't think you can argue with the roster as it is constructed. You have a true superstart, an all-star, a budding all-star, two young rookies who are better than average (but don't want to be considered a star) and a ton of role players. If you dont have a dominant big man I think it is the perfect roster.

Sonic EJ said...

While we are being realistic lets try to keep in mind that our best player is a 30 year old shooting guard and our 2nd and 3rd best players play the same position.

Our 4th and 5th best players are Luke Ridnour and Nick Collison. How much better can an undersized PG and PF get before they are maxed out on potential?

Come on guys.

Let’s stop dreaming.

We need to get better.

Anonymous said...

What exactly did Nate get them to do? Play their games? Do what they've been doing their whole lives?

Their defense was 25th in the league - all that BS from Nate about his defensive focus was a joke. He didn't get them to play defense.

They added rebounding via Fortson, Collison and an improved Evans. Their offense was 3rd in the league in 03-04 and 04-05. They have talented offensive players. The "score early, score late" offensive strategy was all Bob Weiss.

Ray was the leader of this team. He was the one responsible for the team chemistry.

So tell me Black, what exactly did Nate get them to do last year that Weiss won't be able to replicate?

Thrill me with your acumen.

Anonymous said...

Look at the spurs. They have Duncan, Ginobili, and Parker (who really isn't THAT great, just plays on a great team ) They have 1 superstar, one secondary star, and a lot of role players. The sonics are going to be built the same way. Pot and DD are comparable to Nazr and that sackofshit Rasho. Collison is no Duncan, but he's no slouch either. Lewis is an all star, bowen only exists on one end of the court. Ray is better than Ginobili in the end. Luke and Parker are comparable. Parker is more scoring oriented, Luke passing. They then both have quality role players on the benches. Radmanovic gives the sonics even more pop. They are built to contend via ridiculous offense and team defense when it counts. Black and EJ, Would you like to have Jerome James and his 30 million dollar contract, or AD and his? Let other teams sign these stupid contracts. DD AND POTATO ARE WAY BETTER THAN JAMES! AD'S SCORING CAN BE REPLACED BY GROWTH IN LUKE AND NICK! THEY HAVE TWO CENTERS WAITING IN THE WINGS! I'M SURE YOU WROTE THEM OFF LAST YEAR TOO! WEISS HAS BEEN APPLAUDED BY MOST SONICS! BALANCED TEAMS, NOT TEAMS OVERPAYING TYSON CHANDLER (WHO HAS NO OFFENSIVE GAME BTW), WIN CHAMPIONSHIPS!

Biggie said...
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Anonymous said...

Yep, you're an idiot.

Myk said...

Sonics EJ,
You totally miss the point, of course the Sonics should ALWAYS try to get better. But amazingly enough you can't just snap your fingers and make it happen...you are holding management accountable for things they simply cannot control.

Anonymous said...

His point was that Nate's supposed defensive coaching prowess really did nothing, as they were 25th in the league in D. Their future is in their offense. Phoenix rode offense to the western conf finals. Would you be unhappy with the sonics going to the western conf finals two years out of the lottery?

Sonic EJ said...

Anyone who will not even take the time to sign in is a Jackass!

Anonymous is a Jackass!

Anonymous said...

Black, you've got an idiot friend too. Congrats!

Biggie said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Anonymous said...

You're a high school punk. I should teach you how to play hoops, you dumb f**k.

DOGNUTZZZZZZZZZ said...

YO YO, DOGNIZZLE IN THE HIZZOUSE WHAT'S CRACKIN???



"HEY WHERE ARE THE WHITE WOMEN AT?!?"

Sonic EJ said...

myk,

How the hell can Miami go and do what they did this off season?

They were caped out and only had Eddie Jones as trade bait?

Pat Riley got creative on a bunch of GM's asses that's how!

The Sonics management must think we are all a bunch of MYKs around here and don't see what other teams are doing with less cap space and less talent to trade.

Black said...

Yo Dnutz...you the man, brutha! Welcome back to the board my homey!

DOGNUTZZZZZZZZZ said...

DAMN B,

They must love you, trying to be you an shit. LOL

Black said...

Me and my boy dnutz is going to put a beat down on you white boyz...show you how da negros play hoops!

Black said...

JACKASS!!! LOL

Black said...

2:54 wasn't me. Dude, you're a fag. Get a life.

Biggie said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Black said...

DUDE!!! You're lame. Locke - get control of this board before I get pissed.

Biggie said...

That shit is horrible man. I hope you don't go out and hang out with anyone of color I'm ashamed of fellow "americans" like yourself, that shit is just sad man. God bless you.

Black said...

THIS GUY IS A JACKASS! DAMN, DUDE!!

Black said...

STUPID, MAN, STUPID. I PINE FOR THE BLACK MAN HAS TO DEAL WITH YOUR WHITE ASS.

P Whit said...

Money has to match on trades in the NBA fellas. Who you gonna trade for a talented bit man? Rashard Lewis makes $7 million, maybe him. But then you're losing 20 points a game and spinning your wheels, not to mention disrupting the balance and continuity of the team. We don't have tradable contracts that add up to a big man we would want.

Sonic EJ said...

well this sucks!

Biggie said...

That's why I erased all my past blogs, so people can see who's really the one and only "black man." YEYAH

Sonic EJ said...

Put Fortson and Lewis together and what do you have?

12-14 Million?

That might do the trick.

Dognutzzzzzzzzz said...

Fake black is a serious fag man. Trying to put down the black man by wanting to be the black man!

Black said...

SHUT UP DUDE!!!! LAME-ASS HONKY!

Black said...

YA'LL NEED TO QUIT DREAMING THE SONICS ARE GOING TO BE GOOD. WALLY IS AN IDIOT AND LOCKE IS JUST A SCHILL FOR THE MAN! BRING PAYTON BACK!!

Biggie said...

that shit is pathetic, I admit I get mad, but this crap is horrible. I'm raising my boy to deal with this????

DOGNUTZZZZZZZZZ said...

Racist motherfathers dude, it is sad I agree.

Diezel said...

myk.... If u make a offer to chandler, then yes they would have to renounce the rights to those guys but as is we are going to lose all of them anyway except for a one year deal with Vlade, so why not go after him.

Calling me ignorant becuase I would have wanted L Hughes over Ray here are the numbers...

Larry 22pts/5 dimes/6 boards/3 steals 43% from the field he is only a 28 % three point shooter though. And 1rst team all-defense

Ray 24pts/4 dimes/4 boards/1 steal 42% shooter but he is 37% from 3 land.

Plus he's 4 years younger and both of there teams made it to the second round, with Washington winning over a higher seed. SO how am I ignorant??????

U r ignorant how many Wizards games did u watch this year???? I had Season pass, cuz I like to bet hoops so I guarantee I watched more Bball this year than u. The Wizards went from laughing stocks to one of the most exciting teams in the East, if Hughes wouldn't of got hurt last year guaranteed he would have been a allstar.

Plus how can u defend a guy, who only wants to play in the olympics if u pay his ass. You don't think I know the Amnesty rule, I read Marc Steins column like 3 times, my point I guess is if u sign Larry and Tyson that puts you over the cap, then to avoid paying the Lux tax then u axe Danny, I wasn't saying they would have had the loot to sign others.

Your point that HS/Euro centers take a while to develop is my point as well, why did u draft them if u are not going to give them run. If Wally knew this was the direction he wanted to go then why did u draft Petro??? And as far as Robert to me this is a Darko situation draft the guy, sign every dude that plays his same position then burry him on the bench.

Darko now is a head case no confidence at all, what are u telling Robert if u draft another center the year after they use a LOTTERY pick on u, then go and sign two stiffs??

The sonics could have had Jason Maxiel at 25 as well and passed on him.

Myk said...

Diezel,
Are you kidding, so you think that Hughes who was a third option of the team (and never ever put up the stats he put up last year) would be better than Allen who has shown that he can carry a team to the playoffs. Wow way to go the Wiz beat a poor Bulls team, I think we could agree that the Kings were better than the Bulls last year. Yes you are ignorant.

Wow I sure wish we could have signed Hughes and gone over the cap (oh wait that isn't true because we signed Allen to a big deal and we aren't at the luxuary level) and then signed Chandler, lost all of our players and had nothing. SOUNDS LIKE A PLAN. On top of all that lets just get over the luxuary tax JUST SO WE COULD CUT FORTSON, I mean if you are going to pay someone 6 million a year you might as well do it so he can go play for someone else.

Wow you are dumb

Sonic EJ said...

Diezel,

Does it piss you off that every time you come up with a way the Sonics could be getting better, one of Wally’s homer sidekicks (like myk) has to go and try to shoot you down and start calling you ignorant?

Biggie said...

MAN THIS IS LIKE 3RD GRADE, CATS CALLIN NAMES AND SHIT, WOW!! THIS IS PATHETIC.

Myk said...

Everyone quick poll what team would you rather have:

Ridnour, Allen, Lewis, Collison, Dale Davis

Subs: Radman, Brunson, Fortson, Flip, Tre Simmons, Swift and Potapenko

or:

Ridnour, Hughes, Lewis, Collison, Swift

Subs: Brunson,T Tre Simmons, Potapenko and Petro

I mean if we were going to go sign Hughes and then renounce our rights to Flip, Reggie and Vlade so that we could offer money to Chandler (which would be matched) that is the team we would have. At least we would have "tried something" right?

Biggie said...

THE SECOND ONE, THANKS, HUGHES IS MUCH YOUNGER AND ALOT SCRAPPIER THAN RAY(AND I LOVE RAY).

Myk said...

Im not a Wally homer sidekick, I am what they call in the business REALISTIC or LOGICAL. I'm not going to waste my time dreaming of scenarios that would never happen.

Hey Shaq was a FA for a bit this year why the hell didn't the Sonics try and sign him?!?!?

Sonic EJ said...

I think myk is really Wally Walker in disguise.

Biggie said...

THAT'S EXACTLY WHY YOU'RE NOT IN THE 'BUSINESS', JACKASS!!!

Myk said...

Wow Black thank god you aren't the real GM of the Sonics, you think we are going to win a championship with Hughes and Lewis and basically nothing else?

I hear they have an opening at GM for Atlanta you'd fit right in

Sonic EJ said...

diss.

Sonic EJ said...

LOL at myk!!!!!!!!!!!!

Myk said...

Black/EJ/Diezel,

Don't be mad at me if I have to be the voice of common sense against your horrible view on how things work in the NBA

Sonic EJ said...

"Horrible"?

nice.

Myk said...

Yes thinking that we can sign Tyson Chandler and it is worth dropping the rights to all your other players is a horribly distroted view of what would really happen.

If the Sonics had done that and we were not stuck with nothing all of you would be calling for Sund's head saying he should have never gambled like that. Basically you guys will never be happy because you want change just for changes sake.

Sonic EJ said...

This is what sports fans do.

Myk said...

Sonics EJ

Sure it is ok to sit and dream about what could happen in a perfect world. However, you can't blame management for not doing things that just are not possible. Be happy that the Sonics aren't what they were a couple of years ago..

Sonic EJ said...

The Sonics look alot like those Gary Payton led teams in the late 90's.

35-45 wins and going nowhere fast.

Atleast those teams had D Mason throwing down all the time.

Sonic EJ said...

Sorry, 00-03 Gary Payton led teams.

Black said...

Locke, get these faggots off the board man!! This is fucking ridiculous! Seriously!

Anonymous said...

These guys just want to sign a negro to a fat contract and watch him jump up and down and dunk the ball and sell jerseys. What about team ball started by white men?

Diezel said...

myk.. like i said how many wizards games did u watch last year??? and before this year Ray went to the Eastern conference finals but had Big dog, cassell, and George Karl.

The stats don't lie dude, very comparable numbers the kicker for me is the age and the Defense. So being the bball savant that u are if Bruce Bowen averaged 22 pts a game u wouldn't want him on your team. Look at the last 10 years in the NBA name one team that didn't play Defense. The main reason they overcame the Kings so often is because Rick Fox absolutely shut down Peja. And Luke what has he done besides get TORCHED last year in the playoffs and everyone assumes he will get better.

The facts are NO RUN AND GUN teams win the championship, U make fun of my GM skills but the way u want the team constructed seems to me to be a poor mans Dallas Mavericks.

Plus go back to some of my past blog entries where i was begging the Sonics to get Stromile which he signed with Houston for 5/32 way less than what Vlade wants and gives you a athletic 4 who can board and block shots and has crazy dunks.

I know your dumbass can't argue with the fact that Defense wins championships. Because if u do then u are the idiot. Go watch some NBA games then get back to me.

And it wasn't just me that wanted Hughes, if u ever read SI, the story on Hughes talks about how the Sonics were on his tip if they couldn't get Ray, so it wasn't just a pipe dream like the guy who said that Lebron would play in Seattle.

Diezel said...

myk.... and I will test mine, Sonic ej and blacks bball iq to yours anyday.

Anonymous said...

Hughes just gambles for steals and gets beat when it doesn't work out. I'm from DC and I got League Pass too. He's a third option whore, like Drew Gooden. Open shots because everyone's worrying about Arenas and Jamison.

He'll still put up good numbers while everyone's worrying about LeBron, Ilgauskas and Marshall but he ain't ready to be the man like Ray.

Ray can drop 45 on your ass and tell you he's going to do it ahead of time. Nothin' you can do.

Sonic EJ said...

Just curious, is anyone in Seattle surprised that Randy Moss admitted to smoking pot on occasion?

Does anyone care?

Diezel said...

some guy called in to Softy show today as i was listening online, and he claimed he and his friend made a drop to Moss some RB. Don't buy it. But if Moss is looking for some kind weed, he needs to leave Oaktown and hit up Seatown.

Even though he's not that far from Humboldt, but we got BC.

Biggie said...

Randy only said that to take the heat off of his buddy TO. Brothas stick together. I love it, nice job Randy.

Biggie said...

Diezel,

Trust me I'm a conisseur, the kind stuff you get in Seattle is not BC it is Washington grown baby, the BC is OK but the best is grown right here in this state, Hightimes magazine agrees with me.

My buddy gets stuff for Sheed all the time. he used to anyways, says he hasn't talked to him since he left the NW.

Diezel said...

anonymous..... third option really... the only reason Twans numbers went up is cuz Larry was hurt, what did Twan do against Miami or Chicago in the playoffs nothing. This was Larrys first year in the playoffs and he averaged 21 a game. I will take that 3rd option anyday considering our 3rd otion of Vlade averaged 11. And what part of dc r u from anyway.

From your post u sound like u kicked it with Marion Berry alot.

Diezel said...

C'mon black...... U think I just randomly picked the name Diezel... U should of known better.

Please believe I will be at the HEmpfest this weekend showing my civic rights, to Legalize it!!!!

Biggie said...

Diezel and Ej,

Sometimes in life you have to wade through crap. As ya'll have seen today, everybody thinks that they can do a better job than the Sonics managment (I know I do. LOL). I happen to be from the same school of thought that you cats seem to attend. Defense wins championships. the season is a long way off though. Right now I'm gettin pumped about my seahawks (ej, if it was you who said you were a Raiders fan, I'll deal with you later. LOL). Right now I'm about to bounce and go enjoy this beautiful friday, everybody on this blog; have a safe weekend and god bless.

-BLACK

Biggie said...

BTW, all you racist motherfathers; I love ya'll the most, lord knows ya'll need it. :)

Anonymous said...

SE - south cap street. Tough town but they love their hoops.

Hughes is a one-year wonder. He'll do OK in Clev but ain't worth what they're paying him.

DOGNUTZZZZZZZZZ said...

Shut up bitch. hahahaha

AK1984 said...

Look, rather than sign Dale Davis or re-sign Vitaly Potapenko, the Sonics should try and trade Danny Fortson ($6,415,584) for a solid post player, such as either Indiana's Scot Pollard ($6,274,937), Memphis' Lorenzen Wright ($7,700,000), or Orlando's Tony Battite ($5,200,000).

As it is, there are other possibilities regarding trades involving Fortson, such as sending him to Toronto for small forward Lamond Murray ($5,250,000) or shipping him off to Los Angeles for the soon-to-be retired Vlade Divac ($5,393,300; $2,000,000 buyout).

In the end, though, there is no real reason for the Sonics to keep Fortson if there are ways whereby he can be traded. Hell, if the Supersonics can't get rid of Fortson unless they conjunctively trade their rights to any or all of the foreign players (i.e., power forward Peter Fehse, small forward Mickael Gelabale, and point guard Paccelis Morlende), then so be it.

Black said...

Yo dnutz - you believe that motherfather? Damn biotch...

Anonymous said...

I make you my bitch, punk-ass.

DOGNUTZZZZZZZZZ said...

What are you, Russian??


"I make you my bitch, punk-ass"

sounds like schwarzenegger in red heat. LOL

Cockgobbler LOL

DOGNUTZZZZZZZZZ said...

didn't i tell you not to address me with that dnutz garbage?? FAG

DOGNUTZZZZZZZZZ said...

yo yo, I just pulled my tounge out of a fat white chicks ass, and I'm ready to talk some shit. LOL

Anonymous said...

I hate minorities

Anonymous said...

Ak, why do you hate Fortson?

Doing anything that you mentioned wouldn't help our team win a single game.

Black said...

Yo dnutz, don't be hating on a brutha! Fake black be illin' yo. Word to ya mutha!

Anonymous said...

Actually, there was never an offer to Wilkins from Nate and the Blazers. They took him out to dinner when he passed through town, that's about it. It's obvious that the Blazers were targeting Juan Dixon from the beginning.

Anonymous said...

i like the idea. i do think that wilkins is replaceable. i dont know if tre simmons is that guy, i think he will struggle with the nba 3 and the athleticism of his opponents. but i would love to see him take a shot at it.

Whitey said...

I wouldn't worry about saving some minutes for Swift since he'll probably be in the NBDL this season.

Myk said...

Diezel,

You are just plain dumb if you dont think Hughes was a third option on the Wizards? If it wasn't for Arenas and Twasn, Hughes is nothing. Want proof? Look at his numbers for the last five years. He has NEVER shown a season where he could be a top #1 option on the team and yet you want to pay him like one....you are just ignorant...people like you are the ones that kill teams

Diezel said...

myk.... I guess we will find out once they tip off starting Nov.2..... Locke... Your blogspot is getting free pub on myspace.com theres a Supersonics group and a kid pasted a link to your website, no wonder there are so many damm threads on here.

AK1984 said...

The Sonics could do a lot worse at the backup shooting guard position than Tre Simmons.

Besides, it'd be better for the Sonics to have Simmons earn $398,762 on the season, instead of giving Ronald Murray a contract similar to that which Damien Wilkins just received from the Minnesota T-wolves.

However, having Simmons as the lone reserve to Ray Allen isn't a good idea; Richie Frahm, who would be a solid third-string shooting guard, could most likely be had for a one-year deal worth $719,373.

Lastly, I beg of Sonics management to discard whatever illogical beliefs they have concerning Vitaly Potapenko, because the thought of re-signing his bald ass for another season for $3,000,000 is mind-boggling! As it is, the only way Potapenko should return is if come early October the Sonics are still without a center -- other than the NBDL-bound tandem of Robert Swift and Johan Petro -- which would mean that he'd then be worth signing at a 1-year, $1,035,000 contract.

AK1984 said...

There is one thing that the Seattle Supersonics front office has been able to do that is flat-out amazing, with that being the ability to trade away bad contracts that they had given out to big men; some examples of that include the following:

7/1/86 -- The Seattle Supersonics trade center Jack Sikma ($1,600,000) -- who was, at that time, the fifth highest paid player in the NBA behind present-day Basketball Hall of Famers Earvin Johnson, Moses Malone, Kareem Adbul-Jabbar, and Larry Bird -- and two future second-round draft picks to the Milwaukee Bucks for center Alton Lister ($N/A) and two future first-round draft picks (with one of whom being Scottie Pippen!).

2/22/93 -- The Seattle Supersonics trade center Benoit Benjamin ($3,175,000) and the draft rights of shooting guard Doug Christie to the Los Angeles Lakers for center Sam Perkins ($3,047,000).

1/21/99 -- The Seattle Supersonics trade center Jim McIlvaine (4,200,000) to the New Jersey Nets for small forward Don MacLean ($2,460,000) and center Michael Cage ($2,350,000).

7/22/02 -- The Seattle Supersonics trade power forward Vin Baker ($12,375,000) and point guard Shammond Williams ($2,000,000) to the Boston Celtics for point guard Kenny Anderson ($9,185,000), center Vitaly Potapenko ($5,238,750), and shooting guard Joseph Forte ($1,009,920).

7/26/04 -- The Seattle Supersonics trade center Calvin Booth ($5,900,700) to the Dallas Mavericks for power forward Danny Fortson ($5,922,078).

Note: I didn't include the Patrick Ewing trade because it wasn't the Seattle Supersonics who gave power forward Horace Grant an outrageous contract, but rather the Orlando Magic. Now, that notwithstanding, I do regard the Patrick Ewing trade to be a success, as the deal allowed the Supersonics to rid of numerous bad contracts (i.e., Grant, center Vladimir Stepania, center Greg Foster, small forward Chuck Person, small forward Lazaro Borrell, shooting guard Vernon Maxwell, and point guard Emanual Davis.), which more than off-set the $14 million dollar bust that Ewing was during the 2000-2001 season.

AK1984 said...

As it concerns my previous post, here is the CORRECT information regarding the Jack Sikma trade:

7/1/86 -- The Seattle Supersonics trade center Jack Sikma ($1,600,000) -- who was, at that time, the fifth highest paid player in the NBA behind present-day Basketball Hall of Famers Earvin Johnson, Moses Malone, Kareem Adbul-Jabbar, and Larry Bird -- their 1987 first-round draft pick (#18, point guard Mark Jackson), and their 1989 first-round draft pick (#20, small forward Jeff Sanders) to the Milwaukee Bucks for center Alton Lister ($N/A), their 1987 second-round draft pick (#32, power forward Bob McCann), and their 1989 second-round draft pick (#45, point guard Scott Haffner).

In addition, below is another amazing trade that the Seattle Supersonics made ivolving an overpaid post player:

8/7/89 -- The Seattle Supersonics trade center Alton Lister ($N/A) to the Golden State Warriors for a 1990 first-round draft pick (#2, point guard Gary Payton).

AK1984 said...

AH! It's so early in the morning that I ended up making another mistake . . .

As it is, here is the correct information regarding the Jack Sikma trade, with the cited source included:

"Sonics — Traded Jack Sikma, 1987 second round pick (#32-Bob McCann), 1989 second round pick (#45-Scott Haffner) to Bucks for Alton Lister, 1987 first round pick (#18-Mark Jackson), 1989 first round pick (#20-Jeff Sanders) on 7/1/86"
http://n-c-systems.com/hoops/DraftTrades/1989.html

Jake said...

The Indianapolis Star says Davis is close to signing a two-year deal with Detroit:

http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050820/SPORTS04/508200455/1088

Anonymous said...

Thank God.

Anonymous said...

I really don't see how that's good news. I don't see any other options out there at center so I guess we're stuck with Potap, Swift,& Petro. That's pretty weak.

Anonymous said...

This will only make it easier to bring back Evans. Which means, it's really Collison and Pot at center, with Evans and Fortson at powerforward.

Not to mention, this may make it more likely we match Wilkens offer.

Myk said...

Anonymous,
Good point, I dont undertand why people are so happy we aren't going to sign Davis...it is like YES we are't going to get another decent player!!

euge said...

Thanks Myk, you're one of the few people that make some sense on here so keep posting.

The thing is I know Davis wouldn't be the answer to all our problems but he's still better than anybody else that we currently have at that position & if we could get him cheap then why would anybody be against it ? especially because there's nobody else left on the FA market worth looking at.

I love Reggie's "heart" but he makes every open layup become an adventure & it's pretty painfull watching him shoot free-throws. If we can get him back really cheap that's fine but definately nowhere near his asking price of 5 mil/year.

BTW, I'm ok with Tre Simmons as an 11th or 12th man, but I really don't see how the guy's ready to be our primary backup 2/3. He's got a good 3-point stroke when it's on but that's it, he's too one-dimensional.

If the Sonics don't match on Wilkins, I hope they go after Maurice Evans. He was the only Kings player that could at least contain Ray Ray in the playoffs last year + Sac made a lot of their runs with him in the game.

euge said...

Here's the latest on Davis from a Detroit newspaper:

"Media reports Saturday had the Pistons close to signing center / forward Dale Davis to a two-year deal, but the Pistons denied the report, saying nothing was immediately in the works. Davis' agent, Chubby Wells, said he hopes to know more on Monday from the Pistons."We're all in a holding pattern," Wells said."

euge said...

Here's the latest on Wilkins from a Minnesota newspaper:

"Restricted free agent Damien Wilkins of the Seattle SuperSonics wants to sign with the Timberwolves, but the Wolves expect Seattle to match their $15 million, five-year offer."

Sonic EJ said...

How about Sprewell instead of Wilkins?

The guy might thrive in the up-tempo style Bob is talking about playing.

He also would provide the veteran leadership this team lost when AD left.

Besides if Bob isn't working out by mid-season then Sprewell can just put the old sleeper hold on him and Jack can coach the team for the rest of the year.

euge said...

EJ-
That's not such a crazy idea but I don't think he's worth the risk. We have great chemistry on this team right now, why mess that up with a guy who's been a cancer almost everywhere he's been.

Diezel said...

EJ, No spree I can even agree the guy is guaranteed to snap at some point in the season. If we are going to get a hot head we might as well get Nick Van Exel the guys playoff performances speak for them selves anyone remember 95 in the Tacoma dome???? or I know i will get killed for this but bring back GP even though theres no chance cuz Howard totally screwed the guy over, but anyway.

Not happy about brining another old stiff to play center. Your damm right, where were the Sonics when Steven Hunter, Jake Voskull, guys like that were available like u guys said no superstars but by far younger. I might have even gone after Doug Christie or give Disana Diop a chance for the fact that hes only 22 years old.

Sonic EJ said...

All right guys,

I know it wont work but man I want the Sonics to try something. Take a risk, do something.

Anyway, it sucks there is not much left on the market. And the Sonics don't seem to want to trade anyone(Fortson should go).

Keep Reggie!

Anonymous said...

What is up with all the anti-Forston people.

Idiots.

Jeremy said...

The anti-Fortson people are the people who think that by trading him, we can go after someone like a Chandler (who is asking for 6 years, 70 mm: no thanks). When he's playing, he's very valuable to the Sonics as someone who knows how to set screens and rebound. Oh yeah, he scores too.

I would much rather have Fortson to Evans.

Sonic EJ said...

How about the fact that Danny almost blew up the team 3/4 of the way through the season last year.

His track record says that he is good for one year tops and then becomes more trouble then he is worth.

Myk said...

Jeremy,
Really how would be able to trade Danny Fortson and be able to go after Tyson Chandler? When you trade 6 million in contract you have to get pretty close to get 6 million back so that doesn't help you get Chandler in ANY way

EJ,
OK so I had to go to NBA.com to look up Jake Voskhul. I understand that Hunter might be attractive since he is young and athletic, but WHY ON EARTH would you rather have Jake Voskhul and his 4.5PPG and 3.9RPG over Dale Davis...this just baffles me.

As for Spreewell, I think it be worth signing him just so we could see Howard Schultz go crazy..Spree is definately not a Sonics type player...besides I'm sure he needs alot more than what we would pay him to feed his kids and take care of his boat: "Milwaukees Best"

Sonic EJ said...

Myk,

Hold on man. I have never suggested we go after Jake Voskhul. To be honest there are few players I can think of in NBA history are less productive than big Jake. I would probably go bash my head against a wall if the Sonics sign him to play a significant role.

Anyway, I just wanted to clear that up.

Dale Davis would have been nice I guess. I have a hard time getting excited about players that are in the twilight of their careers coming to my team to die. (we have had a few over the years)

Get a deal done for Reggie!

Sonic EJ said...

I wonder how hard it would be to pry Elton Brand out of Clipper-land?

Would Sonics fans be open to shopping Lewis and Collison if that is what it would take?

Myk said...

Sorry EJ,
That was Diezel...who wanted Voskhul

Diezel said...

The reason u look at Jake Voskuhl is in no way am I claiming superstar but he is 9 years younger than DD, and in his career he has been servicable a little more productive before he got the squeeze in PHX.

In his career he has avg 16 minutes a game shot 52% from the field 70% from the line. 4pts and 4.5 boards.

Last year DD averaged 21 minutes shot 48% from the field a HORRIBLE 60% from the line avg 6 boards and 4.7 pts.

So if u would have given Voskul 30 minutes a game his avg would equal around 8ps and 9 boards a game pretty much double what JJ gave u.

And if the sonics intend to run and gun like they say they are going to do u want some guy who has played his whole career basically in a slow down mode or a guy who banged with Amarie every day in practice and is used to run and gun.

In no way am I claiming Voskuhl the man but very comparable to DD and Younger but know it looks like for sure we will get neither so it's a mute point.

I really like what Houston is doing

Getting Sto Show and DA were very good moves in my opinion but I guess we will see. Denver and Houston were the 2 hottest teams going into the playoffs last year as well.

Sonic EJ said...

Here is what John Hollinger of ESPN thinks of the Sonics this off season:


Goals: Keep the core; improve the frontcourt

Last season, Seattle matched up with San Antonio the best. The Sonics' physical style frustrated the Spurs and allowed Seattle to extend the series to six tough games despite Rashard Lewis' absence.
That's why the Spurs might be breathing a sigh of relief when they look at Seattle's free-agent departures. The Sonics entered this offseason with virtually everyone on the roster a free agent. Although Seattle kept the most important piece, guard Ray Allen, several other key components have scattered. Super sixth man Antonio Daniels signed with Washington, and forward Damien Wilkins signed an offer sheet with Minnesota. Reggie Evans, Vladimir Radmanovic and Ronald Murray don't have contracts, either. In fact, even the coach left, as Nate McMillan took Paul Allen's bucks to become the new warden in Portland.
Seattle also wanted to improve the frontcourt, which contributed size and fouls but not much scoring last season. On this front, the Sonics have been slightly more successful. They let Jerome James walk, but he was taking minutes away from better players anyway. They re-signed Vitaly Potapenko, and first-round pick Johan Petro should exceed James' output. But losing Daniels in particular was an enormous blow -- Seattle's weak response was signing Rick Brunson -- and as a result the Sonics are very likely to fall off the pace in the West this coming season. Grade: C-

John Hollinger, author of "Pro Basketball Forecast 2005-06," writes for ESPN Insider.




Please tell me what you think Sonics fans.

Diezel said...

I agree with Hollinger even thughs he's no Chad Ford... The funny thing again is Locke was so hard about Damien being offered this 20 mill contract from this mystery team..... what ever happened with that I mean they have to match Minnesota, why would u let him go to a team in your own Division???

Plus u were going to offer Juan Dixon about the same thing anyway.

I think one of the reasons the Soopes were more succcesfull without Rashard and Vlade is it allowed our mor physical players to bang i.e Danny Reggie Nick JJ Damien Antonio... if u read or heard alot of the Spurs comments they were saying how the Sonics were the most physical team they played in the playoffs.. I guess after consideration Vitaly can be servicable the question is whether or not Robert can???

I don't know how many people have been watching 50 in 50 but when they did West VA, and interviewed Jerry West he stated how much they were in love with Lawerence Roberts hence letting Stro go so easily..... Good Trade Wally this could be another Bobby Simmons or Bobby Jackson move.

The only thing to be optimistic about is that Denver and PHX got worse offseason grades than us.

Sonic EJ said...

What does Rick Sund do with all of his free time?

Does he know how to pick up a phone and propose a trade?

If he was talking to teams about a deal wouldn’t Locke be all over it?

The man has replaced JJ as the most overpaid Sonic.

This is probably fine with most Sonics fans but I’m pissed.

Make something happen Rick!!!!!!!!!!

Earn your paycheck!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Myk said...

The Offseason grade is skewed by Hollinger because he seems to think that the AD signing by Washington was a great move (was in his top 5 I think for all offseason moves) anyone here in Seattle who knows his injury status and age would be able to tell you that it was not a bad move by the Sonics.

Diezel,
Carefull taking Voskhul's per minute numbers and projecting them out. That is the same thing that the Sonics did to justify playing McIlvaine and Booth. Simply put even if their numbers are good on the surface there was a reason why they arent getting the minutes and that is because the coaches knew that the more minutes they played the less value they would give. Very rarely do you find a player that played few minutes on one team that will step up and start playing great on another team. I think the same can be said for Wilkins

Myk said...

Sonic EJ,
There is no reason to make a trade just to make a trade. This isn't fantasy basketball where you just call up an owner and swap.

Sonic EJ said...

What do you think the new grade would be?

An awsome C or how about a great C+.

Come on.

Biggie said...

He doesn't do a damn thing, and Diezel please stop openning the L. Roberts wound, I'm more pissed than most, my cousin attends Mississippi St., I knew the dude was a stud long ago. It's so funny to me how we draft the perfect piece that we need (Roberts) I sit there watching the draft, I braethe a huge sigh of relief when we draft this cat only to wake up the next day and see that we traded him. WTF!!!
It is like it is mandatory for Sonics management to do something stupid on draft day, Collison and D. Mason were the only two recent picks that I liked. Nov. 1st is a long way off, I'm putting this crap in the back of my mind, HEY LOCKE lets get going on some football, enough with this depressing garbage (bumbling Sonics brass).

Myk said...

If you cant give a realistic outline of what the Sonics could have done to get a better grade you can't criticize...

b_con said...

With Collison, Fortson,and Potepenko we need only one more big guy. I would want Vlade over Evans because Vlades are much harder to come by and develop. Petro could probably play dirty and focus exclusively on rebounding this year instead of Evans who has no upside. The SF position is covered with Rashard and Vlade. Vlade would get lots of time as a PF which some might say is bad, but honestly positions are overrated. Its how the team plays that makes the difference. Luke and Brunson have the PG spot (the one that matters most, you always need a point) covered. Allen just needs someone to back him up for 8-10 minutes. Tre and Flip would be good candidates. Tre could work his way into the rotation, while Flip signs a one year tender and is an insurance policy for if Allen gets hurt. He may yet learn how to play something other than isolation. That leaves us with this team: PG:luke/brunson/cleaves? SG:ray/flip/tre SF:rashard/radmanovic/tre PF:collison/radmanovic/fortson C:potato/collison/fortson/swift/petro

Biggie said...

and MYK, what is it with you and D. Wilk did you lose money betting on his uncle or something?? The dude is a stud, and that's from me, you can take that to the bank. It shows your lack of basketball IQ that you are unable to see the intangables of players like Reggie Evans and D. Wilk.

P.S. you are right about Voskuhl though, that dude is a SCRUB!!!!!! C'mon Diezel I had to do a double take when I saw that you even suggested that bum. HE IS GARBAGE.

and no you don't trade just to trade, we all know this, but this team has a track record of starting the regular season with doo-doo scented thumbs.

Myk said...

I don't have a problem with Wilkins, but if you can find a guy and pay him the minimum every year for the production you will get from Wilkins why waste the money?? Wing players are a dime a dozen there are seriously thousands of wings out there that you can sign for the minimum and let them play for 5 minutes. Save the 2 million and spend on another player.

Sonic EJ said...

Here is a reason.

2 of our 3 best players play 3 and both want to start.

Since Sonics fans think this team is ready to start kicking butt in the western conference, maybe they should think about how winning teams look and what they do.

1.) They score consistently inside.

2.) They have balanced talent on their roster. (Not all their good players play wing.)

3.) They have a defensive stopper of some kind.

4.) They rebound very well. (Lose Reggie and we take a hit on this one.)

I could keep going but I am getting depressed thinking about how well constructed franchises look compared to the Sonics.

Anyways, look this over if you think I crazy for thinking we need to make a trade or do something then so be it.

Biggie said...

Oh and to that stupid crap you wrote on friday about Nate not really having much to do with what happened last year, you are on some strong shit dude, Nate is the only reason those cats did that well, no it wasn't all about his defensive schemes. It was what he said to these guys to make them play with more heart than alot of Sonics teams of the past, they haven't been this good since Karl, and Nate is his disciple. Game, Set, Match. No response needed, thanks though.

Myk said...

Black,
I never said Nate didn't do anything. I have gone on record saying that hiring Weiss is far and way a bigger problem than any of their roster problems.

EJ,
Your points may or may not be valid, but they do not match what is possible with the players available.

1) There were no good FA post players available that the Sonics could have signed.

2) The Bulls sure seemed to do good when their best players played the wing.

3) Reggie is a product of our system, it would be interesting to see how the Sonics did in rebounding when he was not in the line up. I bet it wasn't that far off.

Biggie said...

MYK,

just read your last post, do you really believe that this is as good as Wilk is?? You don't think he'll get any better? DON'T EVER BECOME A SCOUT. KEEP YOUR DAY JOB. I mean really you think this kid is just a piece huh? Were you involved in trading Magette away?? I'll bet you were, you bastard. LOL
I'll bet you thought that he was just a role player too, and all sorts of other guys too huh? Kemp, Payton just run of the mill dime a dozen dudes right?? C'mon man.

Biggie said...

PRODUCT OF OUR SYSTEM, dude we have been the worst rebounding team for like the past 6 years before Reggie came to town, his hustle is infectious, C'mon man. just stop posting ok, fine you're new to basketball and we are all glad you're exited about it, but cut your teeth a little before you say some of the silliest things that I have ever had the misfortune to come across.

Diezel said...

myk... by know means was I suggesting We break the bank for Voskuhl, but obviously it looks like the Sonics are just looking for a stop gap until Petro and Robert are ready. I mean I agree that just cuz ur minutes go up your production is going to go up, but his numbers would be no worse than JJ's and like i said he's SERVICEABLE.. He played decent in Chicago and like I said banging in Practice everyday against Amare has to count for something.

I also agree wing players are easy to acquire but if they don't sign Damien then who, Flip??? You have to admit with Rashard and Vlade out against SA that the teams D was way more physical.

The only comparable player out there the Sonics could replace Damien with in my opinion is either Gerald Wallace or Maurice Evans. And when the Sonics were looking to replace AD with Ric Brunson did they even talk to Earl Watson, Damon Jones, or Nick Van Exel???? if they didn't than how can u say Sund is doing a good job???

Nov 2 seems alot closer now... Black.... U ever on Myspace, Lockes website was getting some pub in the Sonics group

Anonymous said...

Why couldn't Nate win more than 40 games in 2003 and 2004 if he's such a hot coach?

BTW, they got worse on defense almost every year that he coached. 16th, 17th, 27th and 25th.

The guy is a defensive genius obviously. No way Weiss can top that kind of performance.

Myk said...

Black,
Umm you are comparing Wilkins and Maggette? There is a pretty amazing track record out there which shows that undrafted FA do not excel in the NBA. Tell me the last undrafted FA who was even an all-star? There is a reason why he wasn't drafted and that is because his skills are limited, much like I was saying before with Voskhul, if you just give a guy more minutes it does not mean he will excel. You are comparing him to three different first round picks (two lottery picks)..he just isn't that great.

Were you the same guy that thought Jelani McCoy would be great because he showed flashes, or Lazaro Burrell because he had a good two weeks. What about Shammond Williams...if an NBA player gets minutes he should be able to do what Wilkins do, that is why he is in the NBA

As for Reggie, his +/- ratio was horrible and it was amazing the Sonics did so well last year considering their startin lineup basically made them play the first 6 minutes of every game 3-5 on the offensive end of the court. The only reason Reggie gets so many rebounds is because no one is guarding him to block out. Why give big money to a player you can't even consider using at the end of the game because his FT% is so horrible. Also, everyone please stop comparing him to Rodman and Ben Wallace. The difference between him and them is that those two also played great D and Reggie doesn't all he does is Rebound every other part of the game is a meduim to huge negative for the Sonics.

Diezel said...

anonymous..... U think the reason our team defense has anything to do with GP getting traded then adding Luke, Flip, and seeing the minutes of Rashard, Vlade, and JJ increase. U could have the best Defensive schemes in the world but when management is breathing down ur neck to give certain guys minutes(Luke) then what r u to do??? Look at Brian Billick when he was with Minnesota his offense was awesome but in Baltimore it sucks, just look at Ray Rhodes in Seattle labeled a Defensive guru and the defense sucks.


If u don't have defensive minded players u cant execute ur scheme. Anyone with a brain knows that.

Just look at what Jeff Van Gundy has done since coming to Houston he's getting guys to fit his style of play.. Mcgrady is no d stopper but at least he stepped up and guarded Dirk, I cant say the same for Ray a real team leader would step up to the challenge of trying to guard Ginobli.

U ever see Kobe shy away from the best 1/2 on the other team?????

Look at Riles also when he left LA and went to NY he went from Showtime to Slowtime so u have to adjust to what u got... Obviously if u knew hoops u would see that

Myk said...

Diezel,
If you don't like Ray Allen you might as well stop watching the Sonics. He is the face of the team for the next 5 years for better or worse. It is dissapointing that you focus on some of his shortfalls and don't give him credit for basically carrying his team through the playoffs.

He is a great leader, good shooter, he isn't selfish and he is great in the community. I would love to root for him any day over a guy like Kobe.

Anonymous said...

Diezel,

You're all over the map here. On one hand you say Van Gundy comes in and conforms Houston to his style of defensive play and then you reference Riley who changes his style to match the players he has. Which is the right approach?

Obviously Nate did neither with the Sonics since they hardly improved between this year and last.

Weiss has already stated that he wants to tailor the defense to the players he has rather than make them conform to a pre-set defensive strategy (which was what Nate seemed to be trying to do). Nate had 5-6 different ways to defend the pick and roll - how about perfecting 1-3 first before moving on to 4-6?

Your arguments seem to confirm my point that it is a players' league and that coaches make only minor differences in the W-L column. The main constant between the last 4 years has been Nate. He benefited in a big way from the added rebounding of Fortson, Collison and an improved Reggie Evans. The offensive scheme was cooked up by Weiss.

So...what did Nate do again? If you attribute the better record to Nate, you have to explain away his other 3 years of mediocrity.

Sonic EJ said...

Alright myk,


"1) There were no good FA post players available that the Sonics could have signed.

2) The Bulls sure seemed to do good when their best players played the wing.

3) Reggie is a product of our system, it would be interesting to see how the Sonics did in rebounding when he was not in the line up. I bet it wasn't that far off.”


1) Reef, Walker, Swift, Chandler and Curry all would have been huge upgrades over a very young Nick Collison and a bunch of stiffs.

2) The Bulls had Jordan. I know what you are thinking and the answer is no, Ray is no Jordan.

3) “Reggie is a product of our system.”
I don’t think you are an idiot but that was one of the dumbest things you have said. You think the reason Reggie can rebound is our system? Reggie lead the nation in rebounding his senior season.

BTW if you think Reggie doesn’t play defense, you’re crazy.

Is there another PF in the league that presses the ball full-court?

Anonymous said...

Well, we don't have to argue about DD any more:

"Veteran center Dale Davis and the Pistons agreed in principle on a two-year contract Monday afternoon. Davis' agent, Chubby Wells, said the Pistons were tired of waiting for forward Michael Finley to make up his mind and decided to move on. "Dale's really excited about the Pistons and we're glad to get something done," Wells said. "It's a good fit for both sides." Detroit News

Biggie said...

Of course Ray is the man, who said he wasn't. Yes, great in the community, great on the court and probably the the most cold-blooded jumper in the game. What's your point? Nobody said he 'needed' to be replaced I can see where Diezel was going with the Larry Hughes thing, I love great D too. I greatly disagree with anyone who thinks Nate did squat, c'mon man are you for real, if it was all up to the players then why have a damn coach, ya'll sound real stupid right now. "Weiss came up with the offensive scheme" are you on crack? all I have to say to you is "we'll see" and yes I'll be on here when the season is back on and I do admit when I'm wrong, but I hope you do too. 7th place in the west next year and that is being nice.

Biggie said...

Diezel and EJ,

Break out the champagne ya'll DD is a Piston. HALLELUJAH, praise the Lord.

I for one really hope they throw those two rooks into the fire quite a bit this year.

Myk said...

EJ,

1) You really think signing Walker to be our PF would have been a good move? Shareef I agree we should have considered. If reports are correct we were in on Sto but he went to Houston..can't just change a guy's mind. WE DON'T HAVE THE MONEY TO SIGN CURRY OR CHANDLER. How many times does this need to be laid out on the table?

2) You are right that Allen is no Jordan but I you are saying that team needs a low post presence to win and I showed it is not required. Plus it is smarter to pay your wings good money if you can't find any PF than pay mediocre post players all your money..

3) You are obviously blinded by the Reggie light. He can't score if his life depended on it, and his D while not horrible is not even mediocre. Great he picks up full court so does Luke does that mean Luke is a good defender no? Look at his stats he only averages .67 spg and .10 bpg.

What I am trying to prove is that if I asked most people who like Reggie would compare him favorably to guys like Ben Wallace and/or Rodman and that simply isn't even close to the truth. He can't guard the post, and out on the perimeter he can get murdered off the dribble BY BRAD MILLER.

Im not willing to spend good money on a guy who only provides hustle and makes you play 4-5 on the offensive end

Myk said...

Black,
As anonymous said how come Nate was so good last year but so mediocre to poor the previous years? In most cities he would have been fired before last year but they gave him a pass because he was Mr. Sonic

Myk said...

Seriously it is hillarious that you guys are happy we didn't sign a decent player...talk about true basketball smarts. Detroit who is a contender and already has tremendous depth in the front court thought he was worth while...but no no no he isn't good enough for our Sonics team.

Everyone rejoice we just didn't get any better today!!

Biggie said...

NO, they gave him a pass because the team was garbage. Reggie stepped up the intensity, Nick is a real good player all that Final Four experience is invaluable, Danny was a real nice puzzle piece, and nate knows how to get you to the promised land all you have to do as a player is shut-up and listen, which wasn't done the previous three years. man I should start charging for answering all your infantile questions, DAMN. The ball is round and orange and you throw it through a H-O-O-P, I know that's not all but let's start you slow OK.

Biggie said...

Wow, I can just see the headlines now "Dale 'Old as Dirt' Davis single handedly took out Shaq in the east and ate Tim Duncan for breakfast in the Finals." Do you have a Moniker we should refer to you as oh great and wise one???

Anonymous said...

I don't know if Lawrence Roberts is going to be the stud some here think. But the Supes sure have drafted and traded a lot of 2nd rounders that panned out. Bobby Simmons, Bobby Jackson, Willie Green. They did the same with Andre Emmett, but I don't think he's done much. Maybe they should keep a few of these guys every once in a while.

Biggie said...

They ALWAYS do that, every year, it's like a requirement for these clowns. Wally Walker is a JACKASS he is the worst evaluater of basketball talent that the world will ever know. I repeat "The Sonics have amazingly won DESPITE Wally."

Fire this clown, PLEASE!!!!!!

DOGNUTZZZZZZZZZ said...

"Well shit, if it's goin' to be that type of party I'ma stick my dick in the mashed potatos."

Anonymous said...

This guy just pointed out in his other post that Reggie, Nick and Danny were all key pieces of the puzzle last year. I guess WW had nothing to do with bringing them on board. LOL...idiot.

Biggie said...

No, idiot, Nate specifically asked for each one of those guys if you knew how to read maybe some one would tell you about this really cool invention that the rest of us have been enjoying it's called a 'newspaper' oooooooooh don't be afraid it won't bite. Put your moms teat back in your mouth you driveling idiot. Go sit in the corner.

Biggie said...

anyone too stupid to figure out how to set up an account on here and has to post as anonymous, just read the posts, please for the good of your fellow man don't contrbute. Thanks.

Biggie said...

contribute, whatever. LOL

Biggie said...

sorry, I just read MYk's earlier post to ej. We all saw what Ray did to Brad Miller, that clowns name shouldn't ever be mentioned on this site, he's probably in ankle surgery as we speak. That was nasty, Ray tied that fool in a knot.

Diezel said...

myk.... ur crazy??? The only reason the pistons signed DD is his roll is going to be the exact roll Elden Cambell played last year ,come in and bang Shaq around for like 10 minutes if they play in the playoffs, guaranteed he's seeing no minutes in the Regular season since they have the Wallace boys, Mcnice, they are going to have to evnetually play Darko and they drafted Jason Maxiel who was impressive in summer league granted summmer so i am realistic on that one.

I cant argue with Ray in the community but answer me this if u diss Kobe, dont u remember when Ray would only play in the olympics if he's paid???? what is your answer to that??

Don't u remember Ray in Milwaukee??? George hated the guy cuz he had no D and was a gunner. Plus Kobe has a WAY better all around game than Ray, except for 3 point shooting Kobe has him on all fronts. The kicker is the rings.

The guy whos questioning the Lawerence Roberts pick go to espn motion dude watch the Jerry west interview I think he can evaluate NBA talent a little better than both u and I.

I am not saying Ray was a bad sign just trying to put out other options mostly for this reason..... debate, the board wouldn't be as good as it is if everyone agreed even u have to be with me on that one

Myk said...

Black,
Love your belief in your opinions. It is great to be so single minded you can't even bother to try and understand other people's opinions.

I really give Nate credit he single handedly brought in every good player on the Sonics and also every bad player on the Sonics he had nothing to do with. I mean when he got so mad because they were going to trade our 33 year old PG for a younger better SG that must have just been a bad moment for him.

Nate is a decent motivator and a very poor X's and O's coach. (I think this is proven based on how he always seemed to get the Sonics out to a good start and then they would fall) Now that he is out on his own without his staff (2 of which are now Head Coaches elsewhere) I think we will see his true abilities.

Don't worry Black I don't expect you to accept my opinions I mean after all you are the one that would rather not sign anyone at all and have your starting Cs be Potapenko, Petro and Swift than sign a capable stop-gap.

Diezel said...

Oh I forgot the guy who said Reggie is a product of the system??? We are not the Broncos we are not pumping out physical rebounders every day get a clue!!!! and ur argument that he has no O, I agree with u but have u ever seen DD try to take a jumper or shoot a free throw, obviously not.

Anonymous said...

Nate didn't ask for those players - that was the FO. Coaches coach, GMs and scouts find and make deals for players. Damn you're dumb.

Myk said...

Umm I'm not knocking Kobe because he is a pretty good talent. But he is a soulless joyless fool and I just can't root for him. Also, I am pretty sure that if Ray Allen played with Shaq when Shaq was in his prime he would have had a pretty good chance at getting a ring..and he probably wouldn't have been stupid enough to force a trade to get rid of him.

Allen may want to have been paid to play but all he was saying is what every NBA player thinks. Just think if you had a job and people wanted to force you to go do the same thing you do at your job and in the process put yourself up as an injury risk that could potentially mean you never got to work again. I think you would want some incentive.

So again we don't want Dale Davis who is being signed to play 10-15 minutes behind two All-Star PF/Cs why? I mean if he was so worthless why didn't the Pistons just go with Campbell and/or Darko this year..they paid this guy good money (i.e. the same the Sonics offered) as an insurance policy. But I guess you are right the Pistons don't know what they are doing anyway...

Myk said...

Diezel,
Um well Davis has been an all-star before Im pretty sure that hell would freeze over before Reggie became an all star. At least with Davis you can play him in the fourth quarter. Imagine that paying a guy to play on your team and actually being able to have in their during crunch time if necessary.

Question, if Reggie is so good at D how come he wasn't the one guarding Duncan at the end of game 6? I mean I doubt you would say that Potapenko is better than Reggie at D right?

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