Wednesday, August 17, 2005

Locked on Sports: Bavasi teetering on tightrope

Locked on Sports: Bavasi teetering on tightrope: "When the Mariners lose their 90th game this season, they will become the first franchise to follow back-to-back 90-win seasons with back-to-back 90-loss seasons since Connie Mack's Philadelphia A's in 1916.

Outgoing GM Pat Gillick said someone else needed to take a 'kick at the cat.' Bavasi has kicked the bucket."


Anonymous said...

It's too early to judge Bavasi. I'd give him at least 3 years. Let's be honest, the team he inherited was on the decline. He's made some bad moves and some good ones.

When he traded Guillen, I'm sure a lot of people like the move. Guillen was injury-prone. Hindsight is 20/20. It's easy to criticize someone after the fact.

I like the prospects we picked up during the recent trade deadline. I'm sure Bavasi attempted to trade Hasegawa, Spiezio, Nelson and Moyer.

I like the past couple draft picks (Tuiasosopo and Clement). Betancourt and Campillo were good signings as well.

Let's give it some time.

Mike Barer said...

I agree with anonymous. He inherited a real mess. I say he is on the right track with the Sexon and Beltre signings.

Diezel said...

Sexson and Beltre.... Sexson has been Jim Thome like big homers and tons of K's, Beltre has been a bust the year before we could have had Migi and we were to cheap to get him. The kicker was that he REALLY wanted to sign Carl Pavano and Jared Wright who have been on the DL, almost the whole year.

If Howard Lincoin had a clue he would go south and hire Billy Bean, and to the guy who said hind sight is 20/20 how else are we suppose to judge if a gm is doing a good job. Your probably one of those fans that was getting into a arguement with me at the m's game for booing Jamie Moyer last week.

If this was NY or Phili U think Bavasi would still have a job, get real man.

Anonymous said...

On Memphis sports talk radio they probably called getting Jerry West to come run the Grizzlies a "pie in the sky"

(not the original poster)

Myk said...

I think the Mariners at least have some potential compared to last yaer. Last year you looked at the team and really saw no hope and now with some of the young guys I think you are starting to see a spark.

As for Beltre I am not sure I see why he is a "colassal bust" everyone says he is. He has played good D and is on pace for 22HRs and 100RBIs. Compared to the 3B we have had in the past you cannot argue with that.

Another thing I dont understand is why everyone thinks we need to spend money on a #1 starter. IMHO if we play in a pitchers park we can get by with decent pitchers, what we need are good hitters who will excel at the Safe. Get another bopper or two who can assure we can score 4-5 runs a game at home and our team will be back on top

Kyle Welsh said...

Bavasi should have one more year - the farm system is coming around. We need to get a legitimate #1 pitcher, and some solid defense up the middle (CF). Bavasi will probably end up being the scapegoat since he's probably just a puppet anyway. Too many owners, too many front-office people calling the shots...

Anonymous said...

oh how everyone forgets that the guillen trade was one that was needed. all the kjr blowhards complained about his injuries and ineffectiveness. that was a good trade. he was injured alot and you did not know when he could play and for how long. locke you do a great job, but sometimes you need to lisyen to your comments back then. bavasi should go, but alot of the blame goes to lincoln and the fat cats on the front office.
they could havebuilt a great team if they wanted to, but the almighty dollar is more powerfull.
now they are paying for it. i did not like the way bavasi handled felix's coming to the big leagues. why all the secrets?????

Anonymous said...

Cripes, some people are tough... just don't get that old and dive off the cliff so fast because of one person. That takes a failure in the player development, draft and scouting deparments. Guess what, people....they were here before Bavasi and they're STILL here (Frank Mattox, Chuck Armstrong, take a bow).

Two....if you think the team is crappy, remember that the team is playing basically with folks drafted and developed by the previous many players can you develop in under 18 months?

Three...if you think Beltre is a bust, then you aren't paying attention. You obviously haven't been noticing that he's been slugging at a .494 clip since June 1 and getting on at a .330 clip. Those numbers may be a BIT disappointing, but they certainly aren't a bust. And while you can't ignore the APril and May numbers (which were awful), you certainly can't ignore the June, July and August numbers (particularly where he's been the #2 man for to Ichiro).

Bavasi's made some mistakes (trading Guillen and getting so little for him, signing Spezio and Aurillia)(but I don't consider Reese a mistake; it was a known gamble for relatively little money), but signing Ibanez and Betancourt and restocking the higher levels of the farm system are pluses and have to be taken into consideration.

Ghost in the Shell said...

Wow! I know that David is hard up for material but sheesh! Is Mitch or Peter Vescey ghost writing for him.
On one hand he says it's not completely Bavasi's fault but that he is going to be blamed for the mistakes of the past and that he deserves it because of Spiezio and others.
Man have a backbone. If you are going to call yourself the guy who "breaks it down" at least get some quality information. Man I could have written that column, and I suck at writing.
What a load. His column in the PI has gotten worse. It sounds like he is trying to throw something out there to cause contreversy than to actually bring something intelligent to the conversation. If he is that stretched thin, I think he should give up writing the column. Or, find better ghost writers. How about this as a topic? Does it appear that after the collapse of the past two seasons, the hindsight of the trades of Freddy and Carlos, and the poorly handled minor league, that Bavasi, on the whole, is doing a great job of finding a good mix of veteran and young players while keeping costs within a reasonable level and rebuilding, from the ground up, the minor league system.

Players are doing well if not great away from SafeCo. Another topic? Is there something systemic in their development or is it the park?

So, is it possible to get a column from "Locked on Sports" that is created for thought and discussion or are we going to get more of the same.
I am very disappointed.

Anonymous said...

Bavasi deserves one more year to get us back on the right track. Here are the things that I believe have to be adressed in the off-season:

1. Acquire a #1 type starter like an A.J.Burnett who was available before the deadline. You cannot put the pressure on 19 year old Felix going into the season as our #1 starter.

2. Acquire a left handed, power hitting left-fielder or DH to put in the middle of Sexson & Beltre. Adam Dunn should be available in a trade, he would be a perfect fit.

3. Give Mike Morse a real chance to win the job at shortstop. I know that Betancourt is better defensively but our problem is offense & Mike has proven that he's a much better hitter. Unlike Betancourt, Mike works the count & drives the ball with power to all fields.

4. Let Betancourt, Bloomquist, & Jose Lopez battle it out for the 2nd base job.

5. Let W. Gonzalez, Torrealba, M. Ojeda, Rene Rivera & Ryan Christianson compete for the 2 catcher spots until Jeff Clement is ready.

6. Give Jeremy Reed up until the trade deadline next year to see if this was simply a poor offensive year for him (.258 2HR 6SB) or is this what we're gonna get.

7. Release Spezio & Hansen.

8. Get rid of Franklin. Let Meche, Pinero, Moyer & Madritsch compete for the 3,4, & 5 spots in the rotation.

9. Replace Nelson & Hasegawa with J.Harris & R.Sorriano.

10. Fire everyone in the organization that has had anything to do with player development & talent evaluation.

Anonymous said...

This is in response to diezel.

Sexson is tied for 1st in HR in the AL. I wouldn't consider Beltre a bust. He's going to end up with some decent numbers. Let's not forget that he needed time to adjust to the league.

True, they should've signed Tejada but he alone hasn't been able to make the Orioles a contender.

The talk about hiring Billy Beane is foolish. The A's wouldn't let anyone talk to him in the first place.

As far as Moyer, I've been calling him a biatch for not accepting a trade to a contending team.

It's easy to criticize and say "they should've done this or done that". I haven't liked a lot of the moves Bavasi has made, but I'm also realistic and understand that he isn't going to hit on all of them.

Mike Barer said...

I think Beltre will come around, in fact, I don't think he has been that bad this year. Just not good enough to deserve the pay that he is getting. He will adjust to the new league and will get better with better hitters around him. How can you call Beltre a bust after only a few months. Can you show me some figures. If there is any bust it is Icharro, although I expect that he too will come around.

Biggie said...

ICHIRO A BUST???? Are you the stupidest person ever???? Go sit in the corner you moterfather MORON!!! "What in the wide wide world a sports isa goin' on here?? you're not here to be jumpin around like a Kansas City faggot". LOL

Diezel said...

I agree Sexson has been a plus just in the fact that he's been healthy all year. IMHO the jury is still out on Beltre though, is he a contract year player or a cornerstone for your franchise.

I like the idea of bringing in Adam Dunn, the only thing that worries me is with Richie and Dunn in the same lineup, there is alot of K's right there.

And Bavasi is going to be a scapegoat for sure, cuz you know that Price or Hardgrove is not going to get fired. Bavasi did hire Hardgrove which so far has been a bust, the guys still living off of his Clevland days, because he was garbage in Baltimore.

Spezio, Aurilla, Pokey Reese those are 3 reasons to lose your job right there. Plus the fact they all but had Jared Wright signed and were all over Pavano. Thankfully we didn't sign either one of them.

I agree we need another starting pitcher. Pitching wins champioships just look at the last two champs. Boston's pitchers last year made that supposed all everything lineup of the cards look foolish, and the previous year the Marlins just shut down the Yankees.

I am still wondering why they didn't move Eddie though he has a no trade but his agent was quoted that he would have accepted a trade to the sox. Who are desperated for a closer.

And if u look at the Freddy trade we got olivio he's gone, Jeremy Reed the jury's still out, and Morse he's in a dogfight for playing time. I think he could be a outfielder though(Morse).

The good thing obviously is Felix, as excited as I am I just hope this isn't the next Rick Ankiel.

Jeremy said...


I'm going to have to take you to task on this article because many of the things you stated just are not true.

When Bavasi took over the team last offseason, Pat Gillick and Lee Pelekoudis were still wielding significant FO power. What some local writers have referred to as Gilvasi was in full effect. The Guillen trade, the Spiezio signing, the Aurilia signing, and the McCracken deal were essentially forced on him by senior management.

For all the success Pat Gillick brought this team, he left the farm system in dire straights with his philosophy of not wanting to take 1st round draft picks: intentionally signing Type A free agents to jettison those picks and holding onto pitching talent despite the obvious holes organizationally in the farm system position players.

During that time, Frank Mattox was the scouting director and oversaw some of the worst drafts in modern baseball history. The Mariners were known for WAY overreaching for guys like Michael Garciaparra.

Bill Bavasi has done an admirable job of rebuilding a base. The Beltre signing may still work out. They went hard after Tejada, but they are unable to force free agents to sign. I don't blame them for not going after Pudge Rodriguez. He was 30 years old and had been catching for 11 years. Traditionally, that's when catchers fall off the face of the earth.

The draft has yielded good young players and through shrewd trading, Bavasi is turning an organization that was win with a scorched earth policy under Gillick to a longer term more stable approach.

I don't know if Bavasi will get to see the fruit of his hard work, but he has done this job the right way.

Anonymous said...

Lotz of good ideas posted on this topic. Hopefully, the Mariners front office reads these blogs. I was surprised to see no mention of Boone. Sure, we can't blame Boone for the entire 2005 season; however, he is to blame for much that has gone on. Superstars directly impact the clubhouse's mentality. This plays a huge part in winning. If Boone's production was even close to expectations, everyone batting around him would have put up better numbers and Bavasi's short term goals would be on track.

Myk said...

I dont think Hargrove has done such a bad job. In fact I think he is a great manager for the young players. He is tough (unlike Melvin) and won't let them get away with things but on the other hand he also stands behind his young guys (unlike Pinella) and doesn't demote them for some struggles. IN a couple of years when Reed and some of the young pitchers are our stars we will thank Hargrove.

Mike Barer said...

Black, that's a bad choice of words on my part. Icharro has been outstanding, I just meant that this has not been one in which he has met the expectations which in themselves are astronomical and for the most part unrealistic. I glad you took me to task for that slip.
You know that even if he is having an average year, Icharro is valuable as a promotional tool. He brings in loads of Japanese fans and the M's bring in a lot of money for market in Japan. Hopefully money to spend on new players.
I think many Japanese tourists come to Seattle just to watch him play.

Anonymous said...

Beltre is starting to come around. If you look at the league leaders, 17 HR/72 RBIs isn't bad for a guy having to adjust to a new league. Sure he's getting paid a lot of money, but he's getting paid to play defense along with the offense. I think next season, his numbers should be closer to .300/30/120.

The Sexson deal worked out great. I'm sure his price tag would've been higher if there hadn't been some doubt about his shoulder.

As bad as this year has been, the Mariners aren't too far away from being contenders. There should be plenty of money in the offseason to acquire a #1 or #2 FA pitcher and another power bat at LF or DH.

Anonymous said...


At worst, Beltre is overpaid. RIGHT NOW. In no way is he a bust. If you wanna talk about busts, lets talk Willie Bloomquist (who's getting on base AND slugging at a worse clip than Boonie).

Morse has NOT shown that he's a major league hitter yet. He's certainly not as good a fielder as Betancourt (and with a pitcher like Felix, a slick fielder like Betancourt can only be considered a plus) and I'm far from convinced that he's a better hitter.

Adam Dunn. Yes! (If the Reds management would get their head out of their butts and figure out what to do). Forget about strikouts--it's not a particularly useful stat. It's getting on base and mashing the ball the counts--and Dunn can do that in spades. (Stop whining about bad are strikeouts when there are two outs or nobody on base?).

THis is a mess that's gonna take several years to fix, and by all rights, Bavasi should have five years to fix the crap he was left (not to mention the deals he was tied to at the beginning of his term). However, as we all know, this is not a just world...

Mike Barer said...

Let's take this back to Locke.

Can you give me 5 bullit points on why Mr Bavasi should be fired?