The offer sheet we told you about arrived today and is exactly as anticipated. The Sonics now have 7 days to decide whether or not to match the offer sheet.
The part of this equation that is unclear is that Wilkins wants to be in Minnesota not in Seattle. Would he have signed the offer sheet if he thought Seattle was going to match? His agent, Mark Bartelstein is one of the best in the business.
We now know why Wilkins turned down the offer from Nate and the Blazers.
In other news I talked with Tre Simmons today and he expects to sign with the Sonics in the next few days. If Wilkins leaves for Minnesota then Simmons would be a nice fit for the Sonics. He can shoot and is a surprisingly good defender.This is a good example of how I feel Wilkins is replaceable. However, the Sonics management talks about Wilkins size, his defensive capabilities and his ability to drive to the basket as things that separate him at this position.
Bottom line if I am the Sonics unless you are certain that Wilkins is going to be able to be a back-up 2 and 3 and give you 18 to 25 minutes a night then I would let him go to Minnesota. He is a replaceable piece.
The decision on Dale Davis should happen today. Davis is deciding between Seattle and Detroit. Detroit falls out of the picture if Michael Finley goes to Detroit, but the word around the league is that Finley to Miami is a done deal.
Seed Newsvine
70 comments:
i would be interested in the terms of a simmons deal, guaranteed or not, trigger date, one year or two.
seems like a sensible - and cheaper again- option to wilkins or murray.
finley to miami makes sense on playing time, maybe money too, the city, and stan was his college coach i hear.
Wow, Miami will have a lot of guys wanting the ball. Shaq, Wade, Walker, Finley, that's a lot of firepower.
Can't the Sonics do a sign and trade with Wilkins? $3 mil/yr is a lot for a player who showed flashes. Hard situation to be in for Sonics management.
NO, for reference the Sonics have no bird rights to Wilkins, therefore they have to use their mid-level to sign him which is a big part of the problem. The mid-level cannot be used to SAT. Furthermore once a player has signed an offer sheet you either match or you don't, the option to SAT even if it had been there previously goes away.
That's a lot of money to tie up for 5 years, especially for a guy who was an UFA. He has no track record. If he had played for 2-3 years, then maybe it's worth it. What are the Wolves thinking?
not to mention some minutes needing to be thrown to swift and petro to develop them. If it were a choice between davis and evans id definitely take reggie, otherwise I wouldnt mind seeing DD on the sonics
Davis is 6-11 and Evans is barely 6-8. Davis can play center and is a defensive force in the paint. He is only a decent shot blocker in terms of stats but he has top-notch weakside help defense and changes lots of shots. He is one of those guys that can anchor a defense and allow the perimeter defenders to gamble knowing that Davis will not allow a layup or dunk if they get beat.
I don't think anyone else we have provides that kind of help except for Collison. Swift showed that control of the paint during summer league even if his offense was pretty weak. Obviously can't count on that continuing in the regular season though.
actually the worst +/- of anybody in the regular rotation is ridnour for two years in a row
The amnesty clause only refers to the luxury tax (over $62M this year I believe) and has no impact on the salary cap. You can't just waive Fortson and suddenly have $6M more to spend on other FAs. We're not in danger of going into luxury tax territory this year.
I have to admit though, if we sign Davis and Vlade - I don't see any minutes at all for Fortson assuming you want to give Swift 10-15 so he can develop.
amnesting danny would not have saved any money because the sonics werent going to be in luxury tax territory and that is all it saves is luxury tax, not cap space.
i guess you beat me to it by a few seconds. sorry for the repeat
I'd rather have Davis over Evans anyday of the week. Evans is great when it comes to the hustling plays, but I'm sure we can find an energy guy and pay him quite a bit less. Davis would give us rebounding and low post defender. Even though he's old, he's still in great shape.
I'm guessing with the signing of Simmons and the likely invites of Omar Thomas and Alex Scales to training camp...we may not see Flip Murray again. Ideally we would get some draft picks or a veteran backup of some kind in a S&T. I feel like any of those young guys can give you better than a 10 PER off the bench.
Also, since we brought Brunson on board, Flip will get even fewer minutes backing up only Ray (about 10 per game) and we know how effective Flip is in limited minutes.
Omar Thomas, by the way, is a better version of Murray. Goes to the rack and gets fouled all the time but doesn't turn the ball over like Flip. Shoots 85% from the line. He had almost identical numbers to Flip in college but played against Div I competition versus Div II.
Sonics drafted Swift and Petro because history shows you can't get good centers via free agency or trade. Shaq is the rare exception - LA was both brilliant for bringing him in and foolish for letting him go. Typically you get guys like old Ewing or old Mutombo - no one gives up great young centers in their prime.
History also shows that it is tough to be a good defensive team without a big, shot blocking center to anchor your defense. Mid-90s Bulls are the exception.
We figured that between two 19-year old 7-footers (one with good shot blocking technique already and the other with more than enough athleticism to become an intimidator) our downside is a strong defensive center and the upside is a pretty damn good all-around big man.
Sonics management are signing Davis and Pot as a 1-2 year bridge until these two guys can develop. I like the moves.
I also love Reggie but he is expendable - just don't want to see him in a Blazers or T-wolves uniform!
PG:Luke/Brunson/Cleaves SG:Ray/?/Simmons SF:Rashard/Vlade PF:Nick/Vlade/Fortson C:Potepenko/Davis/Swift/Petro All they need is someone to spell Ray. It sounds from what you guys are saying like they have plenty of options in undrafted players. I like the solidity at center, plus the powerful offense of Ray, Rashard, Vlade with Luke distrubuting. Add Collison's all around game and a few minutes of destructive force in Fortson, throw in Brunson as a solid back up PG, and add the inspiring presence that is Mateen Cleaves. Get em to play some team d and this is a good team!
Sounds like Weiss is a bit more pragmatic on defense than Nate was. Nate was trying to conform the team to his ideal defensive schemes - my guess is that Weiss will conform the defense to the players he has. Riley was a genius at conforming his schemes based on the cards he was dealt - run and gun in LA, ground and pound in NY. Whatever works.
This team's bread and butter is going to be offense for the next 5 years - no doubt about that. If we had only been average on defense last year we would have won 58-60 games. Let's not get so stuck on defense that we kill our offensive chemistry.
I like the idea of bringing in some toughness and defense with Davis and simplifying our defensive schemes - let's focus on what does work rather than what should work.
So far the Sonics plan seems to be addition by subtraction and not signing bad deals in and effort to be good for a long time.
Wow Sonic EJ, this sounds really horrible. The Sonics are trying to be good for a long time. What could be worse than that??? Hopefully the Sonics don't end up being good for a long time, that would be a PR disaster.
What exactly did Nate get them to do? Play their games? Do what they've been doing their whole lives?
Their defense was 25th in the league - all that BS from Nate about his defensive focus was a joke. He didn't get them to play defense.
They added rebounding via Fortson, Collison and an improved Evans. Their offense was 3rd in the league in 03-04 and 04-05. They have talented offensive players. The "score early, score late" offensive strategy was all Bob Weiss.
Ray was the leader of this team. He was the one responsible for the team chemistry.
So tell me Black, what exactly did Nate get them to do last year that Weiss won't be able to replicate?
Thrill me with your acumen.
Look at the spurs. They have Duncan, Ginobili, and Parker (who really isn't THAT great, just plays on a great team ) They have 1 superstar, one secondary star, and a lot of role players. The sonics are going to be built the same way. Pot and DD are comparable to Nazr and that sackofshit Rasho. Collison is no Duncan, but he's no slouch either. Lewis is an all star, bowen only exists on one end of the court. Ray is better than Ginobili in the end. Luke and Parker are comparable. Parker is more scoring oriented, Luke passing. They then both have quality role players on the benches. Radmanovic gives the sonics even more pop. They are built to contend via ridiculous offense and team defense when it counts. Black and EJ, Would you like to have Jerome James and his 30 million dollar contract, or AD and his? Let other teams sign these stupid contracts. DD AND POTATO ARE WAY BETTER THAN JAMES! AD'S SCORING CAN BE REPLACED BY GROWTH IN LUKE AND NICK! THEY HAVE TWO CENTERS WAITING IN THE WINGS! I'M SURE YOU WROTE THEM OFF LAST YEAR TOO! WEISS HAS BEEN APPLAUDED BY MOST SONICS! BALANCED TEAMS, NOT TEAMS OVERPAYING TYSON CHANDLER (WHO HAS NO OFFENSIVE GAME BTW), WIN CHAMPIONSHIPS!
Yep, you're an idiot.
His point was that Nate's supposed defensive coaching prowess really did nothing, as they were 25th in the league in D. Their future is in their offense. Phoenix rode offense to the western conf finals. Would you be unhappy with the sonics going to the western conf finals two years out of the lottery?
Black, you've got an idiot friend too. Congrats!
You're a high school punk. I should teach you how to play hoops, you dumb f**k.
YO YO, DOGNIZZLE IN THE HIZZOUSE WHAT'S CRACKIN???
"HEY WHERE ARE THE WHITE WOMEN AT?!?"
DAMN B,
They must love you, trying to be you an shit. LOL
Racist motherfathers dude, it is sad I agree.
These guys just want to sign a negro to a fat contract and watch him jump up and down and dunk the ball and sell jerseys. What about team ball started by white men?
Hughes just gambles for steals and gets beat when it doesn't work out. I'm from DC and I got League Pass too. He's a third option whore, like Drew Gooden. Open shots because everyone's worrying about Arenas and Jamison.
He'll still put up good numbers while everyone's worrying about LeBron, Ilgauskas and Marshall but he ain't ready to be the man like Ray.
Ray can drop 45 on your ass and tell you he's going to do it ahead of time. Nothin' you can do.
SE - south cap street. Tough town but they love their hoops.
Hughes is a one-year wonder. He'll do OK in Clev but ain't worth what they're paying him.
Shut up bitch. hahahaha
Look, rather than sign Dale Davis or re-sign Vitaly Potapenko, the Sonics should try and trade Danny Fortson ($6,415,584) for a solid post player, such as either Indiana's Scot Pollard ($6,274,937), Memphis' Lorenzen Wright ($7,700,000), or Orlando's Tony Battite ($5,200,000).
As it is, there are other possibilities regarding trades involving Fortson, such as sending him to Toronto for small forward Lamond Murray ($5,250,000) or shipping him off to Los Angeles for the soon-to-be retired Vlade Divac ($5,393,300; $2,000,000 buyout).
In the end, though, there is no real reason for the Sonics to keep Fortson if there are ways whereby he can be traded. Hell, if the Supersonics can't get rid of Fortson unless they conjunctively trade their rights to any or all of the foreign players (i.e., power forward Peter Fehse, small forward Mickael Gelabale, and point guard Paccelis Morlende), then so be it.
I make you my bitch, punk-ass.
What are you, Russian??
"I make you my bitch, punk-ass"
sounds like schwarzenegger in red heat. LOL
Cockgobbler LOL
didn't i tell you not to address me with that dnutz garbage?? FAG
yo yo, I just pulled my tounge out of a fat white chicks ass, and I'm ready to talk some shit. LOL
I hate minorities
Ak, why do you hate Fortson?
Doing anything that you mentioned wouldn't help our team win a single game.
Actually, there was never an offer to Wilkins from Nate and the Blazers. They took him out to dinner when he passed through town, that's about it. It's obvious that the Blazers were targeting Juan Dixon from the beginning.
i like the idea. i do think that wilkins is replaceable. i dont know if tre simmons is that guy, i think he will struggle with the nba 3 and the athleticism of his opponents. but i would love to see him take a shot at it.
I wouldn't worry about saving some minutes for Swift since he'll probably be in the NBDL this season.
The Sonics could do a lot worse at the backup shooting guard position than Tre Simmons.
Besides, it'd be better for the Sonics to have Simmons earn $398,762 on the season, instead of giving Ronald Murray a contract similar to that which Damien Wilkins just received from the Minnesota T-wolves.
However, having Simmons as the lone reserve to Ray Allen isn't a good idea; Richie Frahm, who would be a solid third-string shooting guard, could most likely be had for a one-year deal worth $719,373.
Lastly, I beg of Sonics management to discard whatever illogical beliefs they have concerning Vitaly Potapenko, because the thought of re-signing his bald ass for another season for $3,000,000 is mind-boggling! As it is, the only way Potapenko should return is if come early October the Sonics are still without a center -- other than the NBDL-bound tandem of Robert Swift and Johan Petro -- which would mean that he'd then be worth signing at a 1-year, $1,035,000 contract.
There is one thing that the Seattle Supersonics front office has been able to do that is flat-out amazing, with that being the ability to trade away bad contracts that they had given out to big men; some examples of that include the following:
7/1/86 -- The Seattle Supersonics trade center Jack Sikma ($1,600,000) -- who was, at that time, the fifth highest paid player in the NBA behind present-day Basketball Hall of Famers Earvin Johnson, Moses Malone, Kareem Adbul-Jabbar, and Larry Bird -- and two future second-round draft picks to the Milwaukee Bucks for center Alton Lister ($N/A) and two future first-round draft picks (with one of whom being Scottie Pippen!).
2/22/93 -- The Seattle Supersonics trade center Benoit Benjamin ($3,175,000) and the draft rights of shooting guard Doug Christie to the Los Angeles Lakers for center Sam Perkins ($3,047,000).
1/21/99 -- The Seattle Supersonics trade center Jim McIlvaine (4,200,000) to the New Jersey Nets for small forward Don MacLean ($2,460,000) and center Michael Cage ($2,350,000).
7/22/02 -- The Seattle Supersonics trade power forward Vin Baker ($12,375,000) and point guard Shammond Williams ($2,000,000) to the Boston Celtics for point guard Kenny Anderson ($9,185,000), center Vitaly Potapenko ($5,238,750), and shooting guard Joseph Forte ($1,009,920).
7/26/04 -- The Seattle Supersonics trade center Calvin Booth ($5,900,700) to the Dallas Mavericks for power forward Danny Fortson ($5,922,078).
Note: I didn't include the Patrick Ewing trade because it wasn't the Seattle Supersonics who gave power forward Horace Grant an outrageous contract, but rather the Orlando Magic. Now, that notwithstanding, I do regard the Patrick Ewing trade to be a success, as the deal allowed the Supersonics to rid of numerous bad contracts (i.e., Grant, center Vladimir Stepania, center Greg Foster, small forward Chuck Person, small forward Lazaro Borrell, shooting guard Vernon Maxwell, and point guard Emanual Davis.), which more than off-set the $14 million dollar bust that Ewing was during the 2000-2001 season.
As it concerns my previous post, here is the CORRECT information regarding the Jack Sikma trade:
7/1/86 -- The Seattle Supersonics trade center Jack Sikma ($1,600,000) -- who was, at that time, the fifth highest paid player in the NBA behind present-day Basketball Hall of Famers Earvin Johnson, Moses Malone, Kareem Adbul-Jabbar, and Larry Bird -- their 1987 first-round draft pick (#18, point guard Mark Jackson), and their 1989 first-round draft pick (#20, small forward Jeff Sanders) to the Milwaukee Bucks for center Alton Lister ($N/A), their 1987 second-round draft pick (#32, power forward Bob McCann), and their 1989 second-round draft pick (#45, point guard Scott Haffner).
In addition, below is another amazing trade that the Seattle Supersonics made ivolving an overpaid post player:
8/7/89 -- The Seattle Supersonics trade center Alton Lister ($N/A) to the Golden State Warriors for a 1990 first-round draft pick (#2, point guard Gary Payton).
AH! It's so early in the morning that I ended up making another mistake . . .
As it is, here is the correct information regarding the Jack Sikma trade, with the cited source included:
"Sonics — Traded Jack Sikma, 1987 second round pick (#32-Bob McCann), 1989 second round pick (#45-Scott Haffner) to Bucks for Alton Lister, 1987 first round pick (#18-Mark Jackson), 1989 first round pick (#20-Jeff Sanders) on 7/1/86"
http://n-c-systems.com/hoops/DraftTrades/1989.html
The Indianapolis Star says Davis is close to signing a two-year deal with Detroit:
http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050820/SPORTS04/508200455/1088
Thank God.
I really don't see how that's good news. I don't see any other options out there at center so I guess we're stuck with Potap, Swift,& Petro. That's pretty weak.
This will only make it easier to bring back Evans. Which means, it's really Collison and Pot at center, with Evans and Fortson at powerforward.
Not to mention, this may make it more likely we match Wilkens offer.
Thanks Myk, you're one of the few people that make some sense on here so keep posting.
The thing is I know Davis wouldn't be the answer to all our problems but he's still better than anybody else that we currently have at that position & if we could get him cheap then why would anybody be against it ? especially because there's nobody else left on the FA market worth looking at.
I love Reggie's "heart" but he makes every open layup become an adventure & it's pretty painfull watching him shoot free-throws. If we can get him back really cheap that's fine but definately nowhere near his asking price of 5 mil/year.
BTW, I'm ok with Tre Simmons as an 11th or 12th man, but I really don't see how the guy's ready to be our primary backup 2/3. He's got a good 3-point stroke when it's on but that's it, he's too one-dimensional.
If the Sonics don't match on Wilkins, I hope they go after Maurice Evans. He was the only Kings player that could at least contain Ray Ray in the playoffs last year + Sac made a lot of their runs with him in the game.
Here's the latest on Davis from a Detroit newspaper:
"Media reports Saturday had the Pistons close to signing center / forward Dale Davis to a two-year deal, but the Pistons denied the report, saying nothing was immediately in the works. Davis' agent, Chubby Wells, said he hopes to know more on Monday from the Pistons."We're all in a holding pattern," Wells said."
Here's the latest on Wilkins from a Minnesota newspaper:
"Restricted free agent Damien Wilkins of the Seattle SuperSonics wants to sign with the Timberwolves, but the Wolves expect Seattle to match their $15 million, five-year offer."
EJ-
That's not such a crazy idea but I don't think he's worth the risk. We have great chemistry on this team right now, why mess that up with a guy who's been a cancer almost everywhere he's been.
What is up with all the anti-Forston people.
Idiots.
The anti-Fortson people are the people who think that by trading him, we can go after someone like a Chandler (who is asking for 6 years, 70 mm: no thanks). When he's playing, he's very valuable to the Sonics as someone who knows how to set screens and rebound. Oh yeah, he scores too.
I would much rather have Fortson to Evans.
Why couldn't Nate win more than 40 games in 2003 and 2004 if he's such a hot coach?
BTW, they got worse on defense almost every year that he coached. 16th, 17th, 27th and 25th.
The guy is a defensive genius obviously. No way Weiss can top that kind of performance.
Diezel,
You're all over the map here. On one hand you say Van Gundy comes in and conforms Houston to his style of defensive play and then you reference Riley who changes his style to match the players he has. Which is the right approach?
Obviously Nate did neither with the Sonics since they hardly improved between this year and last.
Weiss has already stated that he wants to tailor the defense to the players he has rather than make them conform to a pre-set defensive strategy (which was what Nate seemed to be trying to do). Nate had 5-6 different ways to defend the pick and roll - how about perfecting 1-3 first before moving on to 4-6?
Your arguments seem to confirm my point that it is a players' league and that coaches make only minor differences in the W-L column. The main constant between the last 4 years has been Nate. He benefited in a big way from the added rebounding of Fortson, Collison and an improved Reggie Evans. The offensive scheme was cooked up by Weiss.
So...what did Nate do again? If you attribute the better record to Nate, you have to explain away his other 3 years of mediocrity.
Well, we don't have to argue about DD any more:
"Veteran center Dale Davis and the Pistons agreed in principle on a two-year contract Monday afternoon. Davis' agent, Chubby Wells, said the Pistons were tired of waiting for forward Michael Finley to make up his mind and decided to move on. "Dale's really excited about the Pistons and we're glad to get something done," Wells said. "It's a good fit for both sides." Detroit News
I don't know if Lawrence Roberts is going to be the stud some here think. But the Supes sure have drafted and traded a lot of 2nd rounders that panned out. Bobby Simmons, Bobby Jackson, Willie Green. They did the same with Andre Emmett, but I don't think he's done much. Maybe they should keep a few of these guys every once in a while.
"Well shit, if it's goin' to be that type of party I'ma stick my dick in the mashed potatos."
This guy just pointed out in his other post that Reggie, Nick and Danny were all key pieces of the puzzle last year. I guess WW had nothing to do with bringing them on board. LOL...idiot.
Nate didn't ask for those players - that was the FO. Coaches coach, GMs and scouts find and make deals for players. Damn you're dumb.
Dude, you're seriously up in Nate's jock! LOL
I love how some of you guys rag on Locke and you're posting on his board. Pretty hilarious.
I love Reggie but Collison is already better on offense and defense. A bit weaker on rebounding but much more effective all around.
I'm psyched to see what Swift can do. I don't agree with alot of people that he was a stiff in summer league - as far as I could tell, hardly anyone scored in the paint when he was playing defense. He played good weak side D and changed a lot more shots than he blocked. His shooting % was awful but he tended to get the ball dumped to him at the end of the shot clock when our guards didn't have an open 3 available. The guards were definitely out there competing for a job - screw the draft pick.
He did what he's going to be asked to do next year - play D, rebound and score a few buckets. If all he did was that, he's way ahead of JJ right there.
It's OK we all know what Steph looks like, you're girl can't be too much worse.
I clowned all over your momma last night bitch. All over her face. mmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
yeah that's what I thought bitch.
pussy.
your girl looks like George Foreman. HAHAHAHAHAHA
that hurts my feelings dude stop it please. :(
myk'S TOUNGE smells like Bcon's ass!
Hey Diezel,
Hows George?? If you want my address and # just ask your mom.
She comes by everyday, to lather up my scrotum with her nasty little mouth.
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